dog etiquette on Peckham Rye

[Huggers]

Sorry to start new thread but I don't want it to get buried in the woody-dog-attack thread.

Out this morning with my hound I came accross a very upset non-dog lady. She had just been verbally abused by a woman who's two dogs had been harrassing the ducks- because she had pointed out the dog-on-lead notice to her.

If we don't put our dogs on leads where we are asked to in the park, we will soon be asked to keep them on the lead all the time. These on-lead areas are to protect wildlife, newly planted flower beds and shrubs. Little Fido's scamping around them has the same impact as a small act of vandalism.

These areas include the ponds, sexby gardens, the garden with the little brook and the Oval- the Oval has the worst offenders, as for many it is their way in to the park.

It is also my way out of the park and when my dog is on his lead (which he is in this area) he really does not like to be dive-bombed by off lead dogs who's owners are on their mobile phones oblivious or who think it's cute.

Which brings me to my second point of Dog Etiquette. If someone puts their dog on a lead when they see you and your dog it means they do not want their dog to interact with yours at that point- either because it is very young/vulnerable, doesnt like other dogs and may snap if harrassed, or because it is injured/old or maybe just because it is in training.

It is completely unfair to then let your off lead dog rush an on lead dog -who is going to feel much more vulnerable on his lead anyway- and it can undo all the confidence building an owner has been working on with a rescue dog.

For the other lady in the no-dog picnic area, too afraid to let her little dog run free in the main park - how about getting a 'long line'(which is not an extendable lead but like a horse training line) and take him into the enclosed dog-permissable bit just below the 'oval' and build up his confidence there? If scarey big dogs come you can reel him in.

Thanks for your attention everyone.

Huggers Jobsworth.

[MitchK]

It's a social/education problem. You're better off going to Dulwich Park, there is less riff-raff.

[Huggers]

actually, its a pretty middle class 'surely you don't mean me?' problem.

[PeckhamRose]

Excellent post, Huggers.

And did you mean middle class riff raff MitchK?

[first mate]

Huggers, a very good post. Any dog on lead should always be given space- it is a no-brainer for anyone that understands the first principles of dog training and behaviour.

I'm beginning to think that a prerequisite of dog ownership should involve compulsory attendance at a recognised dog training class, where a preliminary practical exam, like the Kennel Club Good Citizen scheme, must be passed by owners and dogs.

I too get annoyed that people let their dogs run off lead around the pond and in the enclosed garden areas and particularly the children's area. People really must exercise a bit of common sense, or, as you say, we'll all be banned from letting our dogs run free on the larger grassed areas. As ever it's a mix of ignorance, lack of joined up thinking and sheer laziness (mobile phonitis- switch it off for half an hour and enjoy nature).

[James Barber]

Southwark Council is undertaking a parks parks survey. Tell them about Peckham Rye park and dogs (amongst other things) before 30 April.

NB great post Huggers.

[SteveT]

A great post Huggers but it will not change the outlook of a brainless bruiser dog owner who gets off on having a seriously violent dog intimidating the local populace.

There should be a dog catcher employed to take any animal not behaving itself.

It's owner should be hauled in along with the dog if necessary.

Both should be put down or castrated to prevent any further offspring polluting the neighbourhood.

[The Nappy Lady]

Huggers, very good point.

I think it would help a lot if they made it possible to walk around the outside of the park without having to do the lead on and off thing...it's not a big deal I know, but might help.

I tend to take a route that almost does this by going up by the cafe, in the little gate that takes you on to what I call the 'squirrel path' (by the skate board ramps etc.), then up and around the outside. If there was a path/gate which allowed me to avoid the Oval by turning left and going down to the fence there, than along the outside edge at that point too it would be possible to do an entire circuit with a dog, without going into any of the on lead areas. Maybe this is something we should discuss with Southwark at some point?

I know there used to be a gap in the fence down in that corner so you could do this unofficially, but I can't wheel a buggy through the gap, so only an option when walking child free.

Molly

[puzzled]

in response to huggers, the oval is not actually an on-lead area. the only time to you see dogs in the picnic area is when people going in there leave the gates open. that goes for other parts. dogs, sadly, cannot read signs and if the gates are left open (as they often are) then they will trot in there until the owners go in and fetch them out. by and large most dogs and their people are very well behaved. the council anti-dog bossyboots make occasional attempts to make all dogs stay on lead everywhere, but they are resisted and will be every time they try. the fact is we all have to rub along together. quite frankly, if it was not for the dog walkers, the park would be empty, particularly in the winter months.

[Sandperson]

Not true I'm afraid Puzzled. I've been in the Arboretum (picnic area) when dogs have been allowed to jump the fence and run around inside with little effort on the owners part to get them out. I have also been in there when people have taken their dogs in there to exercise them, actually taking them off the lead when inside the fence.

I'm sorry but rubbing along together is all well and good but I have a two year old and I am constantly nervous about the lack of control that a signifcant number of owners seem to have over their dogs.

Edited for spelling.

[reetpetite]

I dont agree with you regarding the picnic area ,I often see dogs in there either with their owners or being watched by them on the outside. This happens a lot early in the mornings on a daily basis one particular girl chats on her phone while her pooch runs about in this area.

[Huggers]

well Puzzled, , this morning someone had deliberately taken their dog in the enclosed picnic area. I know, because I had a conversation with them about it.

We are lucky to have most of the park to have our dogs running free, so why give fuel to the anti-dog lobby who would like to see all dogs on leads ?

Nappy Lady, yes you can get around the park without having to go on-lead.

Steve T, I'm not asking for everyone to be castrated, just to read the signs!

Is it true the Oval is no longer a lead on area? It always used to be.

[MissSophie]

In response to all posts, I do have to concur (as a dog-owner) that the majority of times I am walking with mine, the picnic gates and especially the stretch down the path where the stream is are often left open. My dogs instinctively run in as the squirrels there make them give chase; but they come out with sharp word from the pack leader (yours truly). I witness many a time mothers with friends and toddlers parade in and out of the areas, without thinking to close the gate.

I would like the possibility of having Dog Licences re-introduced rather than the ridiculous and frankly redundant 'all dogs on lead' drivel; I will certainly be breaking that rule on a daily basis. Dogs need regular exercise, they are generally better behaved off lead than on as they like to be in a pack - that could mean being with a mate that they see in the park, or a series of other dogs, keeping them on lead will only heighten the aggression issue (as they will also be frustrated) plus it punishes the responsible dog owners. Introducing Dog Licences ensures that the rightful owner is punished should something happen i.e. a known aggressive dog, or an owner not being responsible for their dog fouling the pavements etc. This will also discourage the scum who think of parading their weapon dogs in the area, they wouldn't bother paying for a Dog Licence (pretty sure, Mummy wouldn't lend them the money), thus reducing the risk.

I know I will get bombarded with all kinds of posts in response, but would be interested to get your thoughts - Mr. Barber's in particular.

Thanks

[daizie]

I agree with you .

[PeckhamRose]

I think one should have a dog license too, not necessarily a huge amount of money but maybe like owning a gun you have to apply to the local police or something. Ohhhhkkkkaayyyyy maybe not that bad! But you should certainly have to register somehow like licensees do to the local council. Maybe only for bruiser type dogs though. I don't know. But something has to change.

[daizie]

Hit scum where it hurts , the pocket :)

[2degreesfrommadness]

As owners of a nervous rescue dog who is put on a lead to avoid conflict with other dogs who get " in his face" can we wholeheartedly agree with Huggers original post. He(the dog) is put on his lead to prevent him (and us) getting stressed out when he " has a go" back (especially as he's not 'ard enuff)!

[Huggers]

I agree with miss sophie, but I hope she realizes my original post was about dog etiquette when a dog happens to be on a on a lead and anothe is not- not about putting all dogs on leads which I disagree with.

[Huggers]

Hi 2degreesfrommadenss- my dog is the same- and it's taken a year of training and confidence building to get him to the stage where he is happy around other dogs- but he still doesnt like 'rude dogs' and I have to show him I can protect him from them so that he doesnt have to do it himself.

...I think he dropped the soap in the showers at battersea dogs home and some rottwieler tried to make him his bitch. That kind of things stays with you.

[first mate]

Huggers/2degreesfrom madness,

Yes, some dogs will have problems/issues, especially if they are rescue and all dog owners should try to be across a bit of dog behaviour so that they are aware.

Entire males in particular may not appreciate another entire male dog in their face when they are "trapped" on a lead. This does not mean that either dog is "aggressive" it is simply a natural result of the effects of testosterone. It would be great if people could just get to grips with this basic stuff before deciding to own a dog.

Also there are also what I'd almost call "cultural" differences in communication between different breeds. Staffs and some other bull breeds are very hard for other dogs to read, ditto dogs without tails and so on. This can also cause misunderstandings. A puppy that has been badly beaten up as a pup may develop fear aggression around other dogs. Again, people need to watch their puppies in the park, not every dog will tolerate being leapt on by a strange pup and the ensuing telling off can be severe- doesn't mean the dog is "aggressive" it means the pup's owner should have taken more care.

Bring back the dog licence and some kind of compulsory training.

[The Nappy Lady]

I agree a dog license is a good idea.

Re the picnic area, I have (whilst walking my dog) asked other owners to call there dogs out of this area more than once. If I see the gates open I try to close them too. I always feel that as a regular park user it is part of my duty to do stuff like this, because I genuinely care about the place, and we use it almost every single day, at least once.

It upsets me when parents see my dog approach and look worried, but I do understand why. I always call her away when that happens, and also call to reassure them that she is OK, but of course I guess others would say that when it may not be the case. It is nice when I walk with the children because I guess people feel more reassured.

My dog is a bit 'dog autistic' in that she tends to ignore other dogs, and will usually ignore them if they approach her, but it is surprising how often an owner will let their dog keep harrassing her rather than calling them off, that does make me cross.

Molly

[Horsebox]

JBARBER Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Southwark Council is undertaking a parks parks

> survey. Tell them about Peckham Rye park and dogs

> (amongst other things) before 30 April.

>

> NB great post Huggers.

Hi James,

Have you yourself filled out the online survey? I've just tried it and found it to be really poorly designed and not at all user friendly. Too much re-keying of the same answer and a some questions were incomplete to the point of being meaningless.

I gave up on the third page.

If the council want to get some meaningful data from respondents, they should put a bit more effort into testing the survey before it is published.

(also sent by PM)

[first mate]

The survey seems to be as much an information gathering exercise on individuals as about the parks, though I am aware that it can all be justified in terms of what is necessary to produce statistics.

Anyhow, in my view, the thing that would improve the parks is more park wardens patrolling the park. That way problems with with litter louts, with dogs, with muggers, with kids wrecking plants in Sexby Gardens or with teenage flashers can be dealt with immediately.

Perhaps the burgeoning group of parking wardens could be retrained?

[Ditz]

I live in 'the wrong side' of Peckham (ie not the bit that insists on calling itself Bellenden Village) and all parks and open spaces around here have notices saying that all dogs must be kept on a lead. This includes ALL of the huge Burgess Park. I assume this is mainly down to the the most popular type of dog here - Staffies - and the unfortunate reputation they have gained thanks to their owners. However, they are on the whole perfectly well behaved, good natured dogs and their owners likewise.

As a responsible dog owner I completely ignore the signs not least because I have a cross-bred Border collie who definitely needs more than just walking, and who is obdient and well-trained.

Peckham Rye doesn't have such restrictions and I wonder why that is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad it doesn't and I'm often seen down there with my mutt running free (and no, not through the gardens/picnic area/pond side), but am more than slightly miffed that Southwark Council restricts some - the 'riff raff' shall we say since someone used the term before - but not others...

[Mscrawthew]

I think its time for dedicated dog areas in local parks, With a dedicated, fenced area for dogs to free run (As a dog owner , I know how important this is for them) and then there wouldn`t be the problem of dogs being let loose in enclosed area`s which are quite rightly meant for children/families and non dog loving humans. The problem at Goose Green highlighted the fact that you couldn`t have your dog off lead outside the enclosed area ( With 3 different entrance gates which are left open most of the time) and the enclosed non dog area being the safest, which was why it was used by walkers wanting to let thier dogs have a run.

Maybe it`s time for a reversal of using enclosed area`s to keep dogs in and not out? In the States they have dedicated "Doggie parks" that seem to work well and as we have a growing population of four legged friends it is maybe now a necessity? As we all know there will always be a minor percentage of the population who will disregard any rule or regulation but as been said time and time again, There are a lot of very responsible dog owners out there including Bull Breed owners who are cast with same reputation as the people who should never be able to walk the streets, Let alone with a dog beside them.