Family History in E.D. - looking for memories

[The Nappy Lady]

Hello all,

Having read another thread where ComputedShorty (hope I got that name right, sorry if not) was recalling lots of memories of a childhood in East Dulwich it has occured to me that I may be able to get some help with our family history, which we have got rather stuck with.

My Grandmother, Violet Grace Edwards was brought up in Archdale Road, just off Northcross Road, I think it was house No.3. but don't have the notes in front of me. She was born in 1901, and we know that the family were still in the area during the second world war.

Her father was Oscar Neighbour Edwards and her mother was Alice. Oscar gave private violin lessons.

History earlier than this gets complicated, with Oscar having been adopted, and so we have got a bit stuck, but given the timescale I don't expect much help with that!

If by some amazing fluke anyone on here recognises these names and can tell me anything about the people concerned it would be wonderful.

Such a strange coincidence that I moved to Nunhead from the Midlands, only to discover years later that I live about 2 miles away from where my ancestors (from both sides of the family) grew up!

Molly

[GSJ57]

Hi Molly

I've found your Oscar and Alice on the 1901 census at 1 Archdale Road. They were 33 and 30. His occupation was Auxiliary Postman and Violin Teacher.

Violet Grace's birth was registered in June 1901, so Alice was pregnant with her at the time of the census (which was taken in late March).

Oscar names his birth place as Mile End, (also his middle initial is A not N) I have access to the earlier census returns so I'll check those for you tomorrow, and let you know what I find.

I've been a geneaolgist for 25 years so this is right up my alley!!

[The Nappy Lady]

Thanks so much!

I know Oscar was Oscar 'something' (will check with Mum) Neighbour and then he was adopted and dropped the 'A' and assumed the Edwards. We thought it may be his aunt and uncle that ended up raising him from previous research, but it was ages (years) ago so it has all got a bit blurred in my head....will try to get more info from my Mum as it may help you.

Molly

[computedshorty]

Hi Molly. I dont think I can help I lived higher up Lordship Lane, but my fathers brother lived in the next road Nutfield Road, he and his wife are now deceased. Shorty.

[chichirara]

Just wanted to tell you that my mother was adopted in 1935 and bought up elsewhere. I moved to South London Brixton and Dulwich and that is where her family where from as well. Also on my my Dads side. I love that!!! Neighbour could be his mothers maiden name as people often did this and its a great help verifing births.

Any one remember any Moorhouses or Bartletts

[geneie]

I'm another genealogy nut! I see that Oscar remarried in 1911, at St Mark's Church, Cobourg Road, when he was aged 44, a widower. He married Katherine Dora BEE, a spinster aged 25. His address was 31 Choumert Road, he was a Postman and his father's name was given as James Henry EDWARDS.

I'll try to leave census to GSJ57!

Cheers

Stella

[GSJ57]

Molly - I've pm'd you!

@ Stella - it's addicting isn't it!!

[The Nappy Lady]

Thank you all....Shorty, it was a long shot I know!

So interesting once you start digging though - much appreciate the PM's I've had on this too.

Molly

[computedshorty]

Molly. Things come to light that have remained lost for years, I did my family tree some years ago from 1764, the family came from Ireland in the Potato Famin , snd settled in the Newington & St Saviors eres. That is now known locally as the Elephant & Castle. A new branch has come to light as one of the widowers remarried this was just a few weeks ago, a cousin of that branch joined my website with my name, I got a message today that he had died. so I never met my namesake.

It was a long letter I will show part of it the prior page give my family name.

My lasting memories of my mother are of her sincere kindness and care for others. This extended beyond the family into the local community. My father Ernest was a bit of a loner, to some extent something which my brother and I have inherited, and he did not make friends easily. Mum was always prepared to stop and talk to neighbours and often ran errands for those who were unable to get about. I remember her regular bike trips to the local shops even quite late in life. When she died I received a number of letters from her neighbour friends in Stanmore relating her kindness even though she had moved to Eastbourne a few years before.

My parents made sacrifices so that my brother and I had a good education and start in life. After the War Dad transferred from the practical engineering side of the GPO to office work and he earned a reasonable salary. Mum continued with part-time work she took up to make ends meet during the War years. They had a comfortable life but they worked hard for it.

I think her early experience influenced her character for the rest of her life. I know that she played a leading part in her family from the age of 12 when her mother remarried. She told us how she returned to her family at Christmas and set to work cooking the dinner. She had no idea how she managed to do so but it was a success. Rebecca, being the youngest was the family favourite. This seems to have pushed more pressure on to Grace and I detected this rankled with her. We remember Mum telling us she refused to let her mother pay for her wedding while later Rebecca?s was paid for. There was no real malice or bitterness but just a hint that the sisters were never really close.

The ?help others? trait was always present and Grace was a great mother. She was a super cook and always fed the family well - even during the rationing years of the War and after. Members of my Dad?s family lived in Kennington and were regular visitors to Stanmore. When visitors were about she would rarely be sitting around or taking part but spent her time in the kitchen preparing the meals. This sometimes extended to family outings when she would insist on staying at home so that everything was ready when we returned. There is no real need to say it but our family Christmas gatherings were really something to remember.

My parents moved to Eastbourne where they spent their last few years. Dad died first leaving Mum to go on for a few more years until 1982. Even in her final years she helped neighbours. A close neighbor Mrs West lived nearby and became friends with Grace. In the end she missed seeing Mum and went over to see if she was OK. On entering the bungalow she found a pot burning on the cooker with the burnt remains of dinner. Grace was sitting in an arm chair pen in hand and football coupon on her lap - she had suffered a heart attack. Grace and Ernest are remembered in the ?Book of Remembrance? at Eastbourne Crematorium. A Memorial seat engraved ?Ernest and Grace Basire? was placed next to the bus stop near their bungalow for friends and neighbours when waiting for the bus. When the company installed a shelter the seat was moved to the Crematorium gardens.

Finally, as I write this (2nd February 2010), I learn my younger brother Norman has just passed away. Now, out of my close childhood family of four, I find myself the last survivor.

Eric L Basire

[Fuschia]

We were given a detailed written account of life in Ulverscroft Rd by the grandchild of an early resident... pre 2ww. Fascinating stuff and I have meant to dig it out and scan it and share it.

[The Nappy Lady]

Oooh, yes please Fuschia, would be great to add that to stuff we have. I think it is so sad that families don't pass down stories of ancestors much any more...hope we might be able to re-instigate some of it in our family with all of this.

Molly

[????]

I agree Molly. I've got some fantastic memories of talking to my nan about the East End, seeing a Zeppelin shot down! the general strike (she had to walk from Mile End to Knightsbridge (Harrods), where she was a seamstress and thought she was thus 'dead posh' as they were told turn up or your out), the Blitz etc. Luckily she wrote some of it down for my cousin so I've a copy now which I'll give to my kids when they've got a relevant school project.

[The Nappy Lady]

Wow, thanks to amazing, generous help from others I have now traced back 7 generations to 1740!

Anyway, reason for the update is ED specific - to say that my Great Grandfather Oscar Ince Neighbour Edwards (postman and Violin Teacher) lived at 1 Archdale Road, and married Alice Grace, from 100 Landells Road on 14th April 1900. She was 30 and he was 33 when they got married.

So, if you live in either of those houses you are walking in my families foot steps!

Molly

[sweetgirl]

i think these threads are great!!!! i have a cousin whose currently making a family tree & finding out lots of info we previously didn't know!

good stuff guys....

[Chase Dulwit]

Dear chichirara (the shop)? I remember some Bartletts from the 70's.

They lived in Gibbon Rd, Nunhead. Any use?

[Amelie]

My mother and I lived in Darrell Road until a few years ago. On tracing her family, who moved to Camberwell and Dulwich in the 19th century (1870s), we discovered that my great-great grandparents from her family had lived in the house directly opposite us in Darrell Road. How weird is that?

My grandfather was born at No. 20 Blackwater Street. His family later moved to the Peabody Trust estate in Camberwell and lived in the flat directly underneath Charlie Richardson's family, my great-uncle went to school with Charlie Richardson.

I no longer live in ED, so sadly the Dulwich/Camberwell connection has ended after over a century.

[Pugwash]

My mother and her family were Batemans who lived in Landells Road no.63. My nan was Alice, her sisters Violet and Gladys, they had brothers Walter and Harry (?)( Or was Walter known as Harry? - I know there were 2 boys). Cousin William married Viney and settled in Pellatt Road with 2 daughters - Linda and Jane. Family way back had all lived in Pellatt Road before some of them moving to Landells.

When I have time I need to look up my father's family - discovered last year when I was given a painting done by my grandmother - that she was a member of a music hall troupe called the Aubrey Sisters. I had known about the music hall stuff but thought they went under the name Witham as my great grandfather was Walter Witham. My great Uncle was Dion Wade another music hall star but real name Joseph Cregan who died in his mid 30s and is buried in Putney Cementry.Walter Witham was an artist who exhibited in his native Liverpool and Inow have several pictures painted by him.

Intrestingly enough, whilst I cannot paint or act for toffee, both my daughters are quite artistic, one teaches drama and is a good singer, and my grandaughter is artistic, wants to be an actor and writes poetry. Funny how we inherit some traits/skills from long gone ancestors - nature or nuture?

[chichirara]

Thanks I will check that out. My Great Great Grandfather Thomas Moorhouse sold hot potatoes/icecream in Brixton in the late 1800's. The Bartlets where Dulwich Village, maybe first school masters of Dulwich Free School. Also I had an ancestor Gibbs who was a charcoal burner in Dulwich Woods

[opelske]

I googled Witham (regarding a painting) and the link to this website confused me a bit -- I had to read several posts before coming to the reference to Walter Witham. In any case, I enjoyed the letter in your post. A very touching and beautiful memory.

[opelske]

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Original-Painting-of-a-Tree-on-Canvas-Board-7080156.html

Any relation?

[new mother]

Am I the only one who is totally rivetted by the story of Oscar, the violin teacher?

I'm no relation whatsoever and just ancestor-jacking Molly's interesting tree!

When we looked up the census to see who had lived in our house at the end of the 19th century, we found a father with four children, two servants and two parents in law. We assumed from that that the poor mother/wife had perhaps died in childbirth and her parents were helping. The father was clearly on good terms with his parents in law. :-((( Very sad.

I know someone who looked up her late mother's adoption - her mother never having come to terms with it - and once records were released etc, my friend found information that led her to realise that her mother was really my friend's aunt's daughter. ie her grandmother had covered up the aunt's teenage pregnancy by claiming the new baby was adopted. It meant that my friend's mother never knew that her much older sister was actually her mother, nor that her "adoptive mother" was her natural grandmother.

Whew. History eh???

[VeryBerryCherry]

I needed to post this somewhere as I am a little weirded out by it all.

About 5 years ago I was tracing my Black South African mother's family history. We had found out that my mother's grandmother had married a White English descendent of the owner of a South African Reserve. He had left his family to be with her I think. We managed to trace a ship to where we believed his family were from Durham.

This was a surprise enough as my mother believed she was the first of her family to move to the UK, she had now found out that she was merely returning after many generations, to her family's home.

Well after putting out a search those 5 years ago, I since moved from our home in the Midlands to East Dulwich. I have found out today that we have managed to go back further to find that this ancestor of ours was actually born on Elm Grove, Peckham in 1841 and was baptised in St Giles, Camberwell.

It's so odd as having never heard of this area before moving South, I since find out that this is where part of my family originated.

[ianr]

Just to mention in passing that Archive CD Books is having an online half-price sale until Sunday.

Their stock includes some London directories and maps, including a CD of London maps through the ages. There's a rundown of its contents here., though I don't know anything of their quality or how commonly available they are. There's a fair bit of other interesting stuff too, as well as specifically genealogical items.

[chichirara]

When I traced my mothers birth family I was shocked to find that they came from Dulwich Camberwell Peckham Brixton from 1716 onwards. I had moved back to my roots as well without any prior knowledge. Then I found out my Dads father was in Brixton as well! Welcome home

[telegramsam]

All fascinating history-so personal

My grandparents grew up on the Old Kent Road-moved to Dulwich, ended up on Lytcott Grove. My mother (as a toddler-remembers going to the cinema coming back to find a flying bomb had flattened several houses in the street. Their house was destroyed but in the back half of thehouse her uncle was still alive in the kitchen. My grandparents after the war-like many-went into council housing-insurance never covered the costs. My grandfather later became the labour MP...suceeded (on his death) by Harriet Harman.

Sam