Dangerous dog on Peckham Rye

[PeckhamRose]

Are you sure?

In my diary it's not till Thursday 4th March.

Who told you it's tomorrow?

Nik Wrote:

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> The next Peckham Rye Police Ward Panel meeting is

> tomorrow evening at Harris Girls School at 7pm.

> The meetings are open to all and are usually

> attended by local Police, PCSOs, Community

> Wardens, representatives from Friends of Peckham

> Rye Park and residents.

[PeckhamRose]

Just to add that the meeting was indeed changed and the meeting is tonight Tuesday 16th Feb.

I hope you can make it!

[first mate]

PR, What a shame the date was changed, cannot make tonight- can you please let us know of any news with regard to this issue and indeed of the concern of many forumites that something is done to the owners of dangerous dogs and dogs not under control, but that this concern is not twisted into a means to penalise the majority of law abiding dog owners.

[PeckhamRose]

May I ask you to email [email protected] to ask him for information for the minutes for tonight's meeting and future ones, and to be put on the list so you'll be told when the next meetings are.

I can't go tonight either.

[Nik]

I went along tonight to the Peckham Rye Ward Panel Meeting. I raised this issue with the panel - which included Police, PCSOs and Community Wardens. No one was aware of the specifics of the attack as no formal complaint has been made. They were aware of some of the discussions on the forum. The Police and PCSO will discuss the wider issue of dangerous dogs over the course of the next three months and we will discuss the best approach to be taken at the next meeting. The Police take the whole issue seriously but need incidents to be reported to the Police. I would encourage anyone with an interest in this issue, or any other local concerns to attend the next meeting on Thursday 20th May 2010, 7 pm at Harris Girls School

[TonyQuinn]

Nik Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I went along tonight to the Peckham Rye Ward Panel

> Meeting. I raised this issue with the panel -

> which included Police, PCSOs and Community

> Wardens. No one was aware of the specifics of the

> attack as no formal complaint has been made. They

> were aware of some of the discussions on the

> forum. The Police and PCSO will discuss the wider

> issue of dangerous dogs over the course of the

> next three months and we will discuss the best

> approach to be taken at the next meeting. The

> Police take the whole issue seriously but need

> incidents to be reported to the Police. I would

> encourage anyone with an interest in this issue,

> or any other local concerns to attend the next

> meeting on Thursday 20th May 2010, 7 pm at Harris

> Girls School

Come on people, if you have had cause for concern about dogs and their owners you should report it to the authorities. Nothing is going to happen unless you complain. This forum should not just be a talking shop, it should be a means to action. Mobilise!

[cate]

The original poster, Emily, Woody's owner, said she had reported the incident to the police. How strange of the panel to say that no 'formal' complaint had been made.

[first mate]

Emilydrab was quite clear that she had given the police all the details she had plus involving the SNT and the RSPCA, so it is odd that the police claim to have heard nothing other than via the forum. I wonder did the police ask her to make a formal complaint or as she seemed to imply were they not that interested and so advised that there was little point?

[emilydrab]

Oh sadly I didn't see the message that the meeting was changed. Just to tell anyone new to this debate who didn't see my earlier post (I'm the owner of the poor dog that got attacked, Woody) that it was reported to the police on the day it happened - there was no way I was just going to let this just happen without taking action.

And I've got some update for followers of this thread. The police told me yesterday that the dog who attacked Woody is going to be destroyed. Apparently the owner of Monty the American bulldog took his dog to be put down a couple of days after the incident - I was really pleased to hear this as it showed he wasn't so uncaring as he seemed at the time of the attack. Apparently the vet wouldn't put him down immediately because he hadn't attacked a human but they took the dog off the owner. But now the police are involved the dog is going to be destroyed. It's sad to think of a dog dying but I can't see how any amount of training would take away the instinct of this dog to want to kill other little dogs and maybe move onto kids you could see it in the dog's eyes - I am sure it's the right decision.

Other news is that Woody is recovering well, the light has come back into his eyes and I'm sure he's going to be all right even if he does have a limp. Thanks to everyone for their support through this nightmare.

[emilydrab]

PS I can't understand why the police at the meeting say they don't know about the case when they've been so heavily involved. Two policemen have been round to see me and they've taken action against the owner. This is really strange. I'm going to email them and ask. I think this must be a case of non joined up thinking which is not a good thing to help sort out problems like this in the future.

[first mate]

emilydrab,

Yes, you've highlighted a lack of joined up thinking by the police on a very public forum- it does not invite confidence. Let's hope the MET, SNT, relevant councillors etc.. take note. I'm sure we will all do our best to make the meeting in May.

On another note, I cannot help but feel mixed reactions about Monty. Some dogs, like people, are born bad bad most are made that way by their owners. I very much doubt that Monty's owner encouraged his dog to attack other dogs, but simply couldn't be bothered to train him or deal with his specific breed traits. Had he done so, Monty might have lived his life out happily and Woody would not have had to pay such a high price. Very sad.

Well done Emily, you did the right thing.

[Penguin68]

I very much doubt that Monty's owner encouraged his dog to attack other dogs, but simply couldn't be bothered to train him or deal with his specific breed traits. Had he done so, Monty might have lived his life out happily and Woody would not have had to pay such a high price. Very sad.

I doubt if we know (please correct me if I am wrong) the full history of this dog - if it was a legal breed then it could have been a rescue dog, in which case Monty's last owner may not have been responsible for its disposition - as a rescue dog of this type it might have been initially trained as a fighting dog - these are 'given' small dogs by their trainers to practice on (which is what can happen to small breeds which are stolen - dreadful thought). If the dog was later abandoned and 'rescued' it may already have been trained to attack small dogs, and simply have reverted in this dreadful incident. (I don't believe that dogs known to have been trained to fight are put up for rescue, but an abandoned stray without a history might be). I know a number of people with rescue dogs, some of these have led very hard early lives and can be untrainable regarding some habits. My brother-in-law had a dog which had been cruelly treated by children before its rescue and had to be kept very separate from them, - it was a very small breed and thus not particularly dangerous - but it would be very uneasy around 10 year olds - roughly top-end primary - (its tormentors) - babies and older adolescents didn't cause it a problem. It didn't go out to attack children, but would defend itself aggressively if it thought it was cornered by them and couldn't escape. Given its history it couldn't be blamed for that, but its owner had to ensure that it wasn't placed in that position.

[first mate]

In the case of this dog there are a number of accounts of it attacking other dogs, not just Woody. Woody was the last that we know of. Any responsible owner, knowing that their dog might attack other dogs would not let their dog offlead toroam a public park. In this case this is exactly what the owner did. I do not believe this dog was a rescue, but even if he was, the facts point to the fault for the attack on Woody being the fault of the owner, absolutely.

[pommie]

if it was a legal breed then it could have been a rescue dog, in which case Monty's last owner may not have been responsible for its disposition - as a rescue dog of this type it might have been initially trained as a fighting dog - these are 'given' small dogs by their trainers to practice on (which is what can happen to small breeds which are stolen - dreadful thought). If the dog was later abandoned and 'rescued' it may already have been trained to attack small dogs, and simply have reverted in this dreadful incident. (I don't believe that dogs known to have been trained to fight are put up for rescue, but an abandoned stray without a history might be). I know a number of people with rescue dogs, some of these have led very hard early lives and can be untrainable regarding some habits.

I would have assumed (and know) that rescue centres do valuations on rescue dogs to see what their behaviour is like in diferent situations i.e. with kids, food, aggression etc before they rehome it to anyone and if they feel if the dog is too aggressive then they would have to make the decision to put the animal to sleep. I would guess that no rescue centre would rehome a dog if they believed it posed a risk at all.

[emilydrab]

I've spoken to the police and the reason they didn't raise the issue of this case at the meeting was because the case wasn't complete. By the next meeting we'll be able to talk about it. I must say I'm really happy with the way they have dealt with the whole incident. They did take it seriously and did take action.

Go the SNT!

[PRM21]

hi, re the police. I have contacted the SNT too and they claim to have no knowledge of, or information about, this attack.

I wonder what is going on. If anyone else wants to try the e mail is [email protected]

[emilydrab]

The SNT team that dealt with my case is The Lane SNT - maybe you've been talking to a different branch? I'd like this to join up though. I'm going to email the peckham rye SNT to make sure

[emilydrab]

Yes as I suspected, this is what happened. The Peckham Rye team and the Lane team are totally separate and it's the Lane team who have done all the work in this case. The Lane sergeant said he is goiing to let the Peckham Rye team know about this so everything is joined up.

[PeckhamRose]

Such ridiculousness. The Peckham Rye Park is in peckham Rye so why is it not Peckham Rye Ward?

And I did email the Peckham Rye snt after your first posting, emily but they never got back to me.

[daizie]

Blimey, they cant even link up the rye and the lane without being prompted, its a joke , surely ?

[emilydrab]

Before we judge the police too hastily my impression is that The Lane SNT would have let Peckham Rye SNT know as soon as the case was completed - anyone who works for an any kind of organisation knows it's pretty common for delays in internal communication. But in fact Peckham Rye SNT were my first port of call and then they passed me onto The Lane so they should have known anyway... and as she said in her post, Peckham Rose emailed them too...

[daizie]

You would hope so would'nt you emily .

[monicaP]

Fighting Dogs are the new chav badge and as dangerous as knives but our impotent leaders are too busy electioneering/feathering their nests with our tax to ban them, and the police...what a joke!

[dulwichdogman]

most dogs were bread to fight in one way or another many many years ago , they had a job to do like flushing rats out, sheep herding protecting farms etc, some dogs was bread to safe and help life's. in the right hands any breed can do the right job. working dog is a happy dog. but its us humans that have tried to keep a wild animal in our homes and treat them has humans and not understand what make a dog tick. take us humans out of our natural environment without the right guidance's we would act the same. i see it every day in the park a unbalanced dog or dogs. each dog in my pack have a job and i exercise them well i like to think they are balanced dogs. please dont blame the dog or breed of dog blame the human. we all have been unbalanced in our lifes in some way and got the help or advise to get us back on track, dogs cant ask for help so lets help them to give them and us a happier life in our homes and in the park.

[emilydrab]

Totally agree with you Dulwich dogman - but the most unnatural thing of all is keeping your dog in a crate for six weeks believe me and that's what I have to do with Woody after he was attacked. Yes it's not the breed it's the deed but some breeds are harder to handle than others and I do think after what I've read that you should need a special license to keep certain breeds. Basically an unbalanced pug is going to be a lot less of a pain in the bum than an unbalanced American bull dog.