Inequality in Britain

[Undisputedtruth]

katie1997 Wrote:

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> Gosh, what insight into the forum from someone who

> is relatively new. Been 'lurking' long then?

>

I tend to be analyptical with everything I do. So gaining an insight into the forum was hardly difficult in the short timeframe. Lately I've been a good boy and acted with probity on the forum. My biggest regret was not joining the forum sooner as there seems to be loads of activities going on.

Flushing out m&s shoppers and Guardian readers was a good idea as they don't have NOTHING to offer in terms of extending my knowledge. I know some people have difficuly with this issue but in time they will accept it as fact. I've done it before and I can certainly do it again.

[Laddy Muck]

Any views on the underrepresentation of women in the IT industry?

[Marmora Man]

katie1997 Wrote:

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> Gosh, what insight into the forum from someone who

> is relatively new. Been 'lurking' long then?

>

> Personally, I only bother to read ????, Marmora

> Man and Loz in the DR. Most others are boring and

> I cannot be ar5ed to read their splenetic

> ramblings 'backed up' by Wikipedia. OK gross

> generalisation and off topic, sorry Chair.

Katie1997 - I bow to and salute you in acknowledgement of your kind words.

[Loz]

Undisputedtruth Wrote:

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> Flushing out m&s shoppers and Guardian readers was

> a good idea as they don't have NOTHING to offer in

> terms of extending my knowledge.

They "don't have nothing", eh? So they have something?

[Loz]

Marmora Man Wrote:

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> katie1997 Wrote:

> > Personally, I only bother to read ????, Marmora

> > Man and Loz in the DR.

>

> Katie1997 - I bow to and salute you in

> acknowledgement of your kind words.

Indeed - she is obviously a woman with excellent taste!

[Undisputedtruth]

Loz Wrote:

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> Undisputedtruth Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> They "don't have nothing", eh? So they have

> something?

Sorry, late night, and yes it should be 'they have nothing', though actually their umbrellas and mince pies are not bad.

[Loz]

... and Percy Pigs.

Never forget the Percy Pigs.

[Odyssey]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Actually I think it's more that women have a poor

> record of entering the IT industry.

>

> Most women just aren't interested.

I do agree with you Jeremy. Women have a poor record of entering the IT industry. I remember from my time at university in the mid nineties in a class of about 20 there were about two females. And I believe that that figure hasn't changed a great deal speaking to friends who are now lecturers at university.

In IT roles there are very few women, not only in the UK, but abroad as well. It just doesn't seem to appeal. But, I guess it if was baking cakes, that figure would be the other way around.;-)

[DJKillaQueen]

But, I guess it if was baking cakes, that figure would be the other way around

Wow a huge assumption to make! Nope can't find a single degree course on baking cakes.....try nursing instead :)

[LadyDeliah]

One thing to remember about the public sector is that many services such as cleaning and caring have been outsourced to private companies so a large amount of low paid women who would have been included in the figures for public service jobs ten years ago, are now in the private sector.

[Undisputedtruth]

The Guardian article gives further explanation to how woman,especially ethnic minorities, are discriminated and why they end up working in the public sector.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/video/2011/jul/01/women-public-sector-strikes-video?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3486

I was planning to stay away from the drawing room but I was asked this evening to put the above information on the forum by a fellow forumite.

BTW I have met Zita two years ago and she is very knowledgeable on equality.

UDT

[katie1997]

I was planning to stay away from the Drawing Room but a fellow forumite asked me to jump off a cliff.....ARGH!!!

[Undisputedtruth]

You know where Dover is, Katie.

*UDT waves bye bye*

[katie1997]

Did a fellow forumite tell you to write that or was that (gasp) ... original thought?

(Rhetorical question btw)

[Undisputedtruth]

For avoidance of confusion the Guardian video link arrived into my email account and was not supplied by a fellow forumite member.

Two real life individuals affected by the unfair Tory intervention on public sector renumerations. It shows the extent of today's inequality in Britain.

[DJKillaQueen]

If you look at the plight of ethnic minorities in the Labour market 30 years ago, the public sector has been the single determining factor in addressing that. Zita, in your link UDT, talks about descrimination in the private sector and I've seen that at work in my industry. It's changing, but not nearly fast enough.

You make a good point LD about the outsourcing of low paid service jobs. Cleaning is a particularly good example I think.

[Huguenot]

Whilst I agree generally with the sentiment, this particular comment undermined the whole point...

"They think that women are a soft touch, and we can just take the blame for the deficit".

This is just rubbish. There needs to be a lot of growing up to do regarding political governance, and the first place to start would be recognising that the only money going into the system is the taxation of private workers (not public workers, they're just recycling).

40% of government expenditure is either borrowing, or paying interest on previous borrowing.

If the public sector is suffering from reduced income, it's not because anyone is targeting women or black people.

[DJKillaQueen]

I don't think anyone has said though that minorities and women are being targetted as such, just that they will be most affected by the cuts (I think).

[StraferJack]

Stop coddling the rich..

written by a very rich man indeed

Where Warren Buffet basically tells every rich person who bleats " well, i'll just move to another country" or "it discourages me from investing" to grow up, and the people who say that's how rich people will react, "no they won't"

[Jeremy]

Admirable sentiment from Buffet, except we all know that many wealthy people already do offshore their business interests to pay lower tax.

Surely if Buffet and his mates want to pay more tax, they just need to re-jig their affairs so they are paid through their company payroll, rather than just paying tax on capital gains.

[StraferJack]

I think his point is, as a wider society, we should expect more from the wealthy. We could rely on philanthropy and people volunteeringto arrange their own affairs, but it should be a top down, expected and reliable calculation

And to do that you will hear a lot of "can't be done". (which is something that wealthy people are usually very good at saying "nonsense, find a way")

But yeah, it can be done and, like the smoking ban, would happen more smoothly than predicted

[Jeremy]

Totally agree, of course it has to come from the top down. And there's no reason for it not to happen.

I just thought it was ironic that while he claims that "most wouldn?t mind being told to pay more in taxes", they are all obviously deliberately paying as little as possible.

[Loz]

Whilst 'tax the rich' is a popular mantra at the moment, is it really true that they are not paying their 'share'. The top 10% of earners pay over 50% of the total income tax take and the top end earners are probably also contributing in the form of capital gains and corporation taxes.

But, most interesting, I dug around the HMRC site and found this. Now I've only had a quick read-through, but I found an interesting table 2.7 - Income tax (net of tax credits) as a per cent of gross earnings across percentile income levels for specimen families,.

[pre]

Position in earnings distribution

10th 25th 50th mean 75th 90th

Gross earnings (? weekly) 281.4 361.6 508.6 610.7 720.1 1,007.1

Tax burden (per cent of gross earnings)

Childless single 11.2 13.1 15.1 15.9 16.5 20.8

Childless couple 1.8 13.1 15.1 15.9 16.5 20.8

Couple with two children -33.4 -12.8 8.1 14.2 15.1 20.1

[/pre]

So are the rich really not paying their share? Or am I reading this wrong?

[StraferJack]

that opening paragraph says it all surely?

"OUR leaders have asked for ?shared sacrifice.? But when they did the asking, they spared me. I checked with my mega-rich friends to learn what pain they were expecting. They, too, were left untouched. "

But given "The top 10% of earners pay over 50% of the total income tax take ", what's really the problem in asking them to contribute more?

Clearly the tax take isn't enough for the country at present - so if a new target were to be established, that 50% would reduce accordingly. Could we say here's how much we want to take - and then decide how affordable that would be for the rich before they felt any pain?

This is not to say I want pain to be inflicted btw. Just that it clearly is already, just not by everyone. But surely, if enough people felt like WB, there might be a MUCH simpler way out of the hole we find ourselves in and it's worth asking the question?

[Loz]

The interesting figure I just noticed is that gross income under the 75% percentile - ?720.10. That equates to about ?37.5K per year. I bet there is quite a few people out there saying 'Tax the rich!!' who don't realise they *are* the rich...