Inequality in Britain

[DJKillaQueen]

Well now he needs to do history too. Because his utter lack of knowledge of the problems of Northern Pakistan's mountain areas (and indeed the problems that every Pakistanni president has in dealing with it) is what was so truly stupid about the comments he made. You can not change hundreds of years of tribal culture overnight.

On that level he's almost as stupid as Bush Junior.

The 1940 comment (irregardless of being historically incorrect) was nothing more than a psychophantic effort to suck up to President Obama.

And then saying Iran had a nuclear weapon says just exactly where he is in his mind on Iran. It's the same flaw that Bush and his neo-cons and indeed Blair displayed in telling themselves what they wanted to believe so many times that they actually believed it (i.e. the WMD debacle and Bush's linking of 9/11 to Iraq), irregardless of the evidence and truth. That of all things is a worrying thing to see in a national leader.

[Ladymuck]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> Well now he needs to do history too. Because his

> utter lack of knowledge of the problems of

> Northern Pakistan's mountain areas (and indeed the

> problems that every Pakistanni president has in

> dealing with it) is what was so truly stupid about

> the comments he made.

And geography! So, that's history, politics and geography.

Don't they teach these subjects at private school or is it really all Latin, Greek and Hebrew? Sounds as though his parents ought to be asking for a refund of his tuition fees LOL!

[Ladymuck]

...though they might probably only be met with Caveat Emptor if they tried.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

psychophantic - my favourite new word!

[Ladymuck]

Huh?

[????]

Yes, and Labour's shaping up nicely too with the one that's even more unpracticed in the dark arts than his ex- brooding master, the one who lacked the courage to resign when it could have saved Labour, his nerdy brother, a self-seeking hypocritical fraud or the professional nothern one.....great

[Ladymuck]

Could you translate that lot please Quids? Names (or pictures!) would be good too.

Cheers.

[????]

Ball, Milliband D, Miiliband E, Abbot, the other one

[DJKillaQueen]

I defy anyone to put Miliband/ Clegg and Cameron in a line and spot the difference!

[DJKillaQueen]

I've just finished reading a book called 'Injustice' by Professor Danny Dorling. In it he claims that the richest people in the capital have 273 times the wealth of the poorest and argues that is a gap not seen since the times of slave-owning society.

London is the most unequal region of the country (but that's true of most capital cities). The various layers and non-existence of bridges or connections between them have always disturbed me. It's as though London is several cities co-existing in between each other.

[Ladymuck]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> I defy anyone to put Miliband/ Clegg and Cameron

> in a line and spot the difference!

Any Miliband in particular?

[Ladymuck]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> I've just finished reading a book called

> 'Injustice' by Professor Danny Dorling...

Seen this?

[DJKillaQueen]

lol...very good. Damn it...we need a revolution...........!

[Ladymuck]

A revolution? Well, there is the potential for revolutionary thought/actions (see latest on social mobility). However, as alluded to in the article, unless Milburn tackles the source of our lamentable social mobility (i.e. the inequality), he will only ever be scratching at the surface. There is now more than sufficient evidence to show that the two are inextricably linked.

[DJKillaQueen]

That article is common sense. Unfotunately those in power are at the top of the tree and have little incentive to change anything. One of the best things Labour did however was to introduce a minimum wage...fiercely opposed by the Conservatives. Britian is without doubt a better place for it...but far more needs to be done to stop the ever widening gap.

[Ridgley]

The Gap is wide, and will be even wider under the this goverment as the Tories are heirs of Thatcher with a mix of handbag Lib/Dem

[Jeremy]

In Cleggy's speech today, he announced that he believed the key was in education. "Fairness means that no one is held back by the circumstances of their birth. Fairness demands that what counts is not the school you went to or the jobs your parents did, but your ability and your ambition. In other words, fairness means social mobility".

I think there is a bit more too in than just schooling though...

[DJKillaQueen]

I agree Jreemy but of course there is little fairness in schooling anyway, whilst the rich can send their kids to 'better' schools and earlier because they can pay for them or because they can afford to live in a better area.

And how do you give social mobility to the poor? Education will help some, but most it won't because the reality is that the odds are stacked against a child born into a poor family even when there is access to decent enough schooling. All the statistics show that.

We need to talk about privilege, and what that means exactly and then from there it becomes clear why the divide is indeed such a difficult thing to address (for all the good will intended by those willing to discuss it).

[Jeremy]

You could give a kid the best education in the world, but it wouldn't help them if they are surrounded by negative influences in their home and social lives. It is indeed a very difficult problem to address.

[Loz]

Ridgley Wrote:

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> The Gap is wide, and will be even wider under the

> this goverment as the Tories are heirs of Thatcher

> with a mix of handbag Lib/Dem

Thank you, Wolfie Smith...

[SeanMacGabhann]

Is it not also the case that, assuming we fixed the ?negative influences at home and elsewhere? problem, and then we fixed the fair schooling for all problem, we still end up in a situation where however many thousand kids leave school, and only a smallish percentage of them can fill the better paid jobs whilst the rest will have to take what?s left (if anything at all)

Now a number of those leftovers will use options, travel until something better comes along etc ? but the fact remains that because so many jobs are poorly paid and yet need doing, that all that positive education and support will come to nothing. It just isn?t possible for everyone to do well at school and get a good job

Which isn?t to say you shouldn?t aim to improve all of those things, but I still think that as long as the wealthy are seen as successful and those who struggle are seen as ?well, they could have chosen better or worked harder? then social problems will multiply.

[MitchK]

I think we can see from the A-level pass rates today that equality did improve under Labour. Did you know that pass rates have risen from 87.6% in 1997 to 97.6% today? That's a 10% increase in cleverness under their education policies. Of course though, I worry about the people who do not pass and the stigma that they face. We need to focus on the 2.4% who don't pass and ask ourselves how we can help them.

I'm not sure about all this social mobility nonsense that's going on now. People should know their place and be happy with it. John Major introduced the national lottery and there is always the X factor if you want to get rich quick.

[david_carnell]

Except that I would dispute that we want exam results to show, or be representative of, "equality". Exams are not designed to measure improving standards (or at least they shouldn't be) - they should be used to distinguish ability relative to your fellow pupils.

All any prospective employer needs to know is how you compare to your peers. If you get a mark in the top 10% you should receive an a-grade. End of. We now find ourselves in the ludicrous situation where too many people are getting top marks and universities are having trouble distinguishing between them. It's rather simple. Mark everyone's paper, and THEN apply grading using percentiles.

Equality in society is not achieved by everyone getting A-grades.

[Jeremy]

I think there are two separate issues, which are both important. Equality of opportunity, and ensuring good living standards for all. They are both forms of (in)equality, but need to be tackled in different ways.

As SMG says, there are a limited amount of more highly skilled/higher paid jobs available. There will always be people who earn less than others. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for equal opportunities, regardless of background.

Agree totally with carnell's remark about fitting grades to a distribution, but maybe that's going a bit too far off topic! (?)

[Ladymuck]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> I think there is a bit more too in than just

> schooling though...

I agree Jeremy. Studies have shown that the poorest children are already almost 12 months behind those from middle income homes by the time they are five years old - i.e. before they have started going to school.