Dulwich Community Council - Quietways and major proposal for double yellow lines

[@Woodwarde]

Interested in the Quietway 7 consultation and the massive plan for double yellow lines across Dulwich - both of which could get nodded through if no comment is made?

The Dulwich Community Council is next week:

Tuesday 15 March 2016 7.00 pm

Kingswood House, Kingswood Estate, Seeley Drive, London SE21 8QR

There will be much debate about the consultation on Quietway 7 and the lack of modelling to show how the changes will impact Duliwhc generally.

And tucked late on and ather concerningly, see agenda item 17

17. LOCAL TRAFFIC AND PARKING AMENDMENTS (Pages 58 - 80) 9.35 pm

Note: This is an executive function for decision.

Members to consider the recommendations in the report

Details at

http://tinyurl.com/je2t7eo

Last on the agenda and to be nodded through by Councillors if no-one notices or raises concerns, or has headed home by that hour in the evening are:

55 junctions proposed for double yellow lines in College Ward (Appendix 1 p64)

34 junctions for double yellow lines in East Dulwich Ward (Appendix 2 p68)

37 junctions for double yellow lines in Village Ward (Appendix 3 p73)

And the return of yellow lines and a 'loading bay' for the new Sainsbury's (p78)

In short, a massive and sweeping proposal for double yellow lines, conveniently presented to the DCC as a whole, bypassing any local consultation, alongside the more immediate comments to be made on Quietway 7, using Council March year end attempt to disguise underspent budget, etc. This is pretty shocking and desperately poor practice by Southwark officers.

Time to contact your Councillors, voice your opinion and to attend the DCC.......

[rupert james]

Why has Barber and the other Cllrs not flagged this up on the forum.

It seems that every traffic proposal is left till the very end so people do not get a chance to comment.

[Penguin68]

Because they share the anti car agenda.

[kibris]

Rupert james you are spot on,they go on and on and on about other things that some people are happy with like the M&S but this they dont say a word.

[edhistory]

I make that over 2km of new double yellow lines in East Dulwich Ward alone.

Someone else can work it out for other parts of East Dulwich that are not in East Dulwich Ward.

John K

[ed_pete]

Quietways are a TfL programme undertaken to implement Boris's vision for cycling. Nothing to do with Southwark.

https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/improvements-and-projects/quietways

[richard tudor]

Are you saying that the Cllrs as usual can step back and not engage with the wards.

So if free money is available Southwark will grab it.

And if Cllrs are pro cyclists they will keep mum if it upsets their agenda.

The whole process stinks

[Rockets]

So are they suggesting at each junction there will now be 10 metres of double-yellows in all directions....wow...there goes a load of parking......

Here's the rub:

However the council has no power to enforce this without the introduction of a traffic order and subsequent implementation of waiting restrictions

in other words yet more fines for local residents and more revenue for the council.....usual nonsense from local councils....

[ed_pete]

The Quietways consultations were discussed at length a while back, a thread to which you contributed.

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1451849,page=1

Ongoing consultations are published here.

https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/

Personally I check these on a regular basis, if they happen to come up on the forum as well all well and good.

[ruffers]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So are they suggesting at each junction there will

> now be 10 metres of double-yellows in all

> directions....wow...there goes a load of

> parking......

Not really, the Highway Code already prohibits parking "opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space".

[bels123]

The proposed double yellow lines are all on junctions where you shouldn't park if follwing the Highway Code. Unfortunately some drivers completely ignore this and park dangerously close to the corner, meaning visibility is reduced and road safety problems follow.

I'm all for it.

Here's Southwark's explanation as to why below -

Why are double yellow lines being proposed?

 The current proposals aim to remove obstructive and dangerous parking from all junctions in the area. The Highway Code makes it clear that motorists must not park within 10 metres of a junction, unless in a designated parking bay. However the council has no power to enforce this without the introduction of a traffic order and subsequent implementation of waiting restrictions (yellow lines).

 By introducing double yellow lines at junctions we ensure that we meet the needs of all road

users whilst ensuring that motorists clearly understand where and when it is safe to park. In our experience motorists have a clearer understanding of the meaning of a double yellow line compared to their understanding of the Highway Code and therefore will abide by them without

the need for enforcement.

 Where there are single yellow lines on a junction this can send out mixed messages that it is

acceptable to park in these locations at certain times which is why we are proposing upgrading

these to double yellow lines as part of this project.

 Ensuring adequate visibility between road users is important for safety. Visibility should generally be sufficient to allow road users to see potential conflicts or dangers in advance of the distance in which they will be able to brake and come to a stop.

 Vehicles that are parked at a junction have the effect of substantially reducing visibility between road users and reducing stopping sight distance (SSD). This is the viewable distance required for a driver to see so that they can make a complete stop before colliding with something in the street, e.g. pedestrian, cyclist or a stopped vehicle. Double yellow lines ensure this inter-visibility is provided at junctions and prevents people parking over dropped kerbs.

 It is noted that almost two thirds of cyclists killed or seriously injured in 2013 were involved in collisions at, or near, a road junction.

 Children and those in wheelchairs (whose eye level is below the height of a parked car) are disproportionally affected by vehicles parked too close to a junction. The Guide Dogs for the Blind Association (Guide Dogs) strongly recommend that yellow lines are implemented at junctions as these areas are potentially more dangerous to vulnerable road users.

[slarti b]

ed_pete Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Quietways are a TfL programme undertaken to > implement Boris's vision for cycling. Nothing to

> do with Southwark.

Not correct. TFL are setting the strategy ( and maybe the routes?) and providing the money. But Southwark is implementing the route within the borough. Hence the involvement of AECOM Conway as designers ( and presumably Conway as contractors!) The exception seems to be the Dulwich Village junction which is being designed by TFL.

[rabbitears]

Looks great. its very annoying when people park cars on corners eg if you have a wheelchair, pushchair...

[geh]

In my view completely unnecessary on back roads EG Blackwater/Melbourne Grove. Reducing speed on these roads would be a more welcomed initiative, if anything cars parked up to the junction forces drivers to slow down and turn into roads more slowly.

Waste of money with the knock on effect of making peoples daily lives more difficult.

Before you shout, I don't drive a car, but ride a bike (both kinds!!)

[kibris]

Im for it as well i have 3 cars and park on my drive once someone didnt find a parking space and put there posh tank on my drive

[MarkT]

Thanks, Bels123 for quoting, above, 8 reasons given by Southwark to justify the blanket application of double yellow lines extending 10M from junctions.

If this were required by national law, then all other reasons would be redundant. However, the Council?s first point shows that it is the Council's choice; the Council can decide to allow parking within 10M: ?motorists must not park within 10 metres of a junction, unless in a designated parking bay?

Surely at some of these junctions now designated for 10M double yellows lines, the Council has already built out pavements to provide recessed parking within a few metres of the corner. Did that improve safety? Was it all a waste of time and money?

With regard to the key argument that the proposed parking restrictions will increase visibility, the Southwark Streetscape Design Manual Section DS114 paragraph 1.2(a) provides a very good reason as why increased visibility may not improve safety at any particular junction:

?b. Stopping distances vary with vehicle type and speed. However, research now suggests that providing excessive visibility can also introduce dangers as it may increase the speed that people drive or ride at.?

Therefore, it is meaningless, in this context, to quote statistics of cycling accidents at junctions, without stating which of those junctions were high or low visibility.

With regard to the last bullet point concerning the safety of wheelchair users this does not seem to be a universal consideration for Southwark Council:

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1622398

Their assertion that ?By introducing double yellow lines at junctions we ensure that we meet the needs of all road users?, I believe is meaningless. This is a matter for balancing the needs of different groups, and for assessing the potential safety benefit for each junction, case by case.

MarkT

[richard tudor]

How is this 10 m calculated. Is it 5 m each side of the corner

[TheArtfulDogger]

Her comes the start of a CPZ for East Dulwich, by reducing parking near a junction by 10m each side, thus removing at least one space where cars park (nearer the end of the 10m distance from the junction) it then adds pressure on the remaining spaces leading to it being easier for the council to pursue their anti car policy across the borough and making money for the cash strapped borough by enforcing parking fines and revenue from "administration charges" for the scheme.

Whilst I am all for making junctions safer for all, this does smack of a sledge hammer to crack a nut with the council able to raise revenue from cars parked on corners and the possible introduction of a CPZ

I for one want to raise my objection to this being implemented borough wide.

[Burbage]

richard tudor Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How is this 10 m calculated. Is it 5 m each side

> of the corner

No. It's 10m from the junction. The Highway Code has advised for decades that motorists do not park their vehicles within 30ft of a junction, and that was more-or-less abided by for a long while. But it isn't any more, and so the council is planning, by applying yellow paint, to redress the situation.

To my mind, it's both necessary and not a moment too soon.

[Scootingover]

The 10m is Highway Code guidance and not legislation. 10m would apply on very fast roads and limited visibility where cars pull out into fast moving traffic.

On quiet residential roads now restricted to 20mph? Highly questionable. These proposals recognise this and indicate 7.5m. Still too much, if necessary at all. Make your voice heard to your Councillors before the DCC as this decision is made by them.

[first mate]

Mark T, thanks for outlining the totally random nature of this latest intervention by Southwark. How much will all of this be costing? Mind you I suppose the revenue from CPZ will more than balance the books- after all, that is what this is really about.

[rupert james]

This and all the other proposals that Southwark are quietly implementing should be a wake up for all residents.

Just how many residents actually go to the DCC and more importantly how many residents know of proposals that Southwark have in mind.

Not Many

Only those few in the loop and aided and abetted by those Cllrs with their own agendas means they will be passed.

Look at all the recent consultations and note just how many responses come back.

As long as there is a % no matter how small it will get passed if Southwark wants it.

Beware

[holymoly]

Extensive proposed double yellow lines across 126 locations. Full details under agenda item 17 at http://tinyurl.com/je2t7eo

EAST DULWICH Ward Double yellow line are being proposed at 34 junctions

Location

BLACKWATER STREET & MELBOURNE GROVE; CRYSTAL PALACE ROAD & HEBER ROAD

BLACKWATER STREET & BASSANO STREET; CRYSTAL PALACE ROAD & SILVESTER ROAD

LYTCOTT GROVE & MELBORUNE GROVE; CRYSTAL PALACE ROAD & JENNINGS ROAD

LANDCROFT ROAD & HEBER ROAD; CYRENA ROAD & HEBER ROAD

LANDCROFT ROAD & PELLATT ROAD; CYRENA ROAD & CYRENA ROAD

LANDCROFT ROAD & JENNINGS ROAD; CYRENA ROAD & PELLATT ROAD

LANDCROFT ROAD & SILVESTER ROAD; CYRENA ROAD & SILVESTER ROAD

LANDCROFT ROAD & CRYSTAL PALACE ROAD; CYRENA ROAD & SILVESTER ROAD

LANDCROFT ROAD & THOMPSON ROAD; CYRENA ROAD & PELLATT ROAD

LANDCROFT ROAD & GOODRICH ROAD; BARRY ROAD & SILVESTER ROAD

LANDELLS ROAD & GOODRICH ROAD; CREBOR STREET & UPLAND ROAD

LANDELLS ROAD & SILVESTER ROAD CRYSTAL PALACE ROAD & RODWELL ROAD

GOODRICH ROAD & FRIERN ROAD; CRYSTAL PALACE ROAD & PELLATT ROAD

GOODRICH ROAD & CRYSTAL PALACE ROAD; TELL GROVE & MELBOURNE GROVE

GOODRICH ROAD & UPLAND ROAD

GOODRICH ROAD & DUNSTANS ROAD

ETHEROW STREET & NORCROFT GARDENS

DUNSTANS ROAD & CREBOR STREET

CRYSTAL PALACE ROAD & THOMPSON ROAD

CRYSTAL PALACE ROAD & GOODRICH ROAD

DULWICH Ward - Double yellow line are being proposed at 37 junctions

Location

BOXALL ROAD & DULWICH VILLAGE; DRUCE ROAD & WOODWARDE ROAD

BURBAGE ROAD & GALLERY ROAD; DRUCE ROAD & COURT LANE

BURBAGE ROAD & COLLEGE ROAD; DULWICH VILLAGE & BOXALL ROAD

CALTON AVENUE & COURT LANE; DULWICH VILLAGE & AYSGARTH ROAD

CALTON AVENUE & DULWICH VILLAGE; HILLSBORO ROAD & THORNCOMBE ROAD

CALTON AVENUE & CALTON AVENUE; BEAUVAL ROAD & MILO ROAD

CALTON AVENUE & TOWNLEY ROAD; AYSGARTH ROAD & TURNEY ROAD

CALTON AVENUE & GILKES CRESCENT; COURT LANE & COURT LANE GARDENS

CALTON AVENUE & DULWICH VILLAGE; COURT LANE & COURT LANE GARDENS

LORDSHIP LANE & COURT LANE; COLWELL ROAD & PLAYFIELD CRESCENT

FRANK DIXON WAY & COLLEGE ROAD; COLWELL ROAD & MELBOURNE GROVE

GALLERY ROAD & DULWICH VILLAGE; LYTCOTT GROVE & MELBOURNE GROVE

GLENGARRY ROAD & TARBERT ROAD; PICKWICK ROAD & TURNEY ROAD

EASTLANDS CRESCENT & COURT LANE; THORNCOMBE ROAD &TROSSACHS ROAD

EASTLANDS CRESCENT & DOVERCOURT ROAD; THORNCOMBE ROAD & TARBERT ROAD

DEKKER ROAD & COURT LANE; ROSEWAY & TURNEY ROAD

DEKKER ROAD & WOODWARDE ROAD; ROSEWAY & TURNEY ROAD

DESENFANS ROAD & WOODWARDE ROAD

DESENFANS ROAD & COURT LANE

DOVERCOURT ROAD & WOODWARDE ROAD

COLLEGE Ward Double yellow line are being proposed at 55 junctions.

Location

BOWEN DRIVE & BOWEN DRIVE; ILDERSLY GROVE & PARK HALL ROAD

BOWEN DRIVE & BOWEN DRIVE; BELVOIR ROAD & BELVOIR ROAD

BOWEN DRIVE & BOWEN DRIVE; BELVOIR ROAD & UNDERHILL ROAD

LYMER AVENUE & DULWICH WOOD PARK ; ACACIA GROVE & ALLEYN PARK

KINGSWOOD DRIVE & KINGSWOOD DRIVE; ALLEYN CRESCENT & ALLEYN ROAD

KINGSWOOD DRIVE & KINGSWOOD DRIVE; ALLEYN PARK & ALLEYN PARK

LANGTON RISE & UNDERHILL ROAD ; ALLEYN PARK & ALLEYN PARK

LORDSHIP LANE & LORDSHIP LANE ; ALLEYN PARK & ALLEYN PARK

FARQUHAR ROAD & DULWICH WOOD PARK; CRESCENT WOOD ROAD & SYDENHAM HILL

FARQUHAR ROAD & TYLNEY AVENUE ; CRESCENT WOOD ROAD & CRESCENT WOOD ROAD

FARQUHAR ROAD & FARQUHAR ROAD ; CRESCENT WOOD ROAD & CRESCENT WOOD ROAD

FARQUHAR ROAD & FARQUHAR ROAD ; CROUCHMANS CLOSE & SYDENHAM HILL

FARQUHAR ROAD & FARQUHAR ROAD ; CRYSTAL PALACE PARADE & CRYSTAL PALACE PARADE

FARQUHAR ROAD & FARQUHAR ROAD ; COLLEGE ROAD & COLLEGE ROAD

FOUNTAIN DRIVE & FOUNTAIN DRIVE ; SEELEY DRIVE & SEELEY DRIVE

DULWICH WOOD PARK & A2199 ; SEELEY DRIVE & SEELEY DRIVE

DULWICH WOOD PARK & BAIRD GARDENS; SYDENHAM HILL & SYDENHAM HILL

DULWICH WOOD AVENUE & DULWICH WOOD AVENUE; SYDENHAM HILL & WOODSYRE

DULWICH WOOD AVENUE & DULWICH WOOD AVENUE; SYDENHAM HILL & SYDENHAM HILL

DULWICH WOOD AVENUE & DULWICH WOOD AVENUE; SYDENHAM HILL & SYDENHAM HILL

DULWICH WOOD PARK & COLLEGE ROAD; SYDENHAM HILL & SYDENHAM HILL

A2199 & A2199; OVERHILL ROAD & UNDERHILL ROAD

A2199 & CROXTED ROAD; PARK HALL ROAD & PARK HALL ROAD

A2199 & A2199; MELFORD ROAD & MELFORD ROAD

A2199 & CRYSTAL PALACE PARADE; MELFORD ROAD & MELFORD ROAD

A2199 & CRYSTAL PALACE PARADE; BOWLEY LANE & BOWLEY LANE

JASPER PASSAGE & JASPER ROAD; UNDERHILL ROAD & UNDERHILL ROAD

[Rockets]

So 10m is about 2.5 car lengths.....so each road will lose a minimum of 10 parking spaces.....here comes CPZ....

A lot of junctions are already policed by drop kerbs but this seems to be further extending the no parking area beyond this which seems draconian at best, opportunistic and motivated by some other strategic intent at the worst.

10m is a huge amount of space and I suggest there is good reason why most councils don't enforce this.

Like the recent Loughborough Junction debacle initiated by Lambeth council there seems to be an undeclared war on car users being initiated by local and central government and, hopefully, like the Loughborough junction nonsense enough people will protest and defeat these hairbrain ideas.

[edhistory]

A loss of 340 car parking spaces in East Dulwich Ward alone.

John K