New owners want to carry out a side extension and return - has this happened to you?

[Derek b]

That's very useful thank you!

Just one question on builder's insurance - does anyone know if their insurance will cover a builder if he doesn't comply with good practice/ regulations etc? My concern is that a cowboy cuts corners which leads to structural problems but his insurer won't pay out to remedy the problem because he wasn't compliant in his actions

[LondonMix]

I was talking about public liability insurance for accidental damage which a good builder should have to cover things that might happen (and do happen even with a good builder). If you are concerned about shoddy work, just casually ask your neighbours about building control inspections to make sure proper oversight for the LA is in place. That should be more than adequate and is in your neighbours best interest as well.

Good luck!

[Penguin68]

What you have to take into account is that a party wall agreement (amongst other things) documents the state of your house before the work starts - that is a good starting place to negotiate from if the builder does cause any accidentla damage - which might include e.g. cracking in your walls caused by work on the other side.

If you really get on with your neighbours you could take photographs 'before' and get them to agree these - but a party wall agreement does give you a legal framework - their builder would have to put right any consequential defects but it's much easier to get this done if such an agreement is in place (and you may find their insurance will require such an agreement in place before they agree to pay out!).

Whatever your relations with your neighbour, these agreements exist for a purpose.

[LondonMix]

The builder is liable with or without a party wall agreement. The party wall doesn't create any new rights for either party whatsoever.

[Jeremy]

When we had some work done a few years back, the neighbours just took photos of the wall and sent it to us (and the builders) before the work started. I think it's a fairly common arrangement, and IMO it's quite sensible if the builder has a reasonable reputation/presence locally. And you might be glad of the good will if you decide to do your own extension or loft conversion at some point.

[Penguin68]

The builder is liable with or without a party wall agreement. The party wall doesn't create any new rights for either party whatsoever.

This may be true, but the builder may be more difficult to persuade (outwith legal recourse) if his insurance is unhappy to pay out. And there may also be issues about consequential loss. Of course it is possible to proceed without such an agreement, and 9 times out of 10 (possibly 99 out of a 100) this will all be fine. But it is the tenth (or hundredth) time that it may be an issue. Your risk.

[LondonMix]

The builder isn't party to the party wall agreement. Its between the neighbours. A builder doesn't even need to be appointed.

I'm not saying don't get a party wall agreement but don't get one because you think you get extra rights. The official guidance makes it very clear that the main benefit is an agreed basis of the condition of the house before work starts by an objective 3rd party that's well documented.

If you both feel comfortable you can take pictures and agree the condition between yourselves, you'll still achieve the main benefits of a partywall for this type of work. If you feel out of your depth documenting something like this though, go ahead and appoint a shared surveyor who can do a thorough job.

[fazer71]

^ this

[red devil]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> When we had some work done a few years back, the

> neighbours just took photos of the wall and sent

> it to us (and the builders) before the work

> started. I think it's a fairly common arrangement,

> and IMO it's quite sensible if the builder has a

> reasonable reputation/presence locally. And you

> might be glad of the good will if you decide to do

> your own extension or loft conversion at some

> point.

Did the photos form part of an official Agreement, or did you just have photos?...

[Jeremy]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Did the photos form part of an official Agreement,

> or did you just have photos?...

Just photos... and a written acknowledgement from the builders, stating they'd rectify any damage. Everyone seemed OK with that.

[red devil]

I'm sure you were if none of you realised you were breaking the law... :)

[LondonMix]

You don't have to have a party wall agreement. All you have to do is serve the appropriate notices. Once that's done, neighbors can come to any separate side agreement they want.

[Jeremy]

RD... you're right, my memory is failing me. There was a signed party wall agreement - basically just a standard template on a single sheet of A4. No solicitors involved though.

[red devil]

Yep, there's no official form as such. Some people won't be aware that party wall works aren't just confined to works on a party wall, it also includes excavations to nearby works. This is a good guide to that and everything else...

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/393927/Party_Wall_etc__Act_1996_-_Explanatory_Booklet.pdf

[fazer71]

Hey soyamocha3

Have they started which way did it go?

Two surveyors and then they selected a Third surveyor as per Daft Legislation?

Or did you get a free holiday out of it whilst keeping every one of your rights (the rights you were never going to lose) as a adjoining neighbour?

#CrazyLawsMakingExpertsRichForNothing

[fazer71]

Hey soyamocha3

Thanks for sending me a PM calling me a f$cking ar?ehole.

It was a pleasure helping you with this very worrying situation.

C you next Tuesday ;)

[fazer71]

Let's be clear if you ask for help on a public forum you will get all the help you need and some you don't that's the nature of public forums.

[fazer71]

Is it just me or do others get annoyed when ..

You go out of your way to give advice when it's requested and the individual who you've provided said advice disappears without returning to the thread to thank or let those who helped know how they got on?

Maybe just me? Such bad manners IMHO :) !

Oh well Users all over the place, sad silly people I guess and you don't know until you've gone to the trouble of passing on your hard earned advice and researched some information for those who are out of their depth and in "big" trouble.

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[fazer71]

As they say no good deed ever goes unpunished lol

[fazer71]

soyamocha3 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In case you did not get that the first time - you

> really are a @#$%& arsehole

soyamocha3 in case you did not get that the first time Satanic Forum Rules

?Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

?Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

?When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

?If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

Wind it in Fazer - you've clearly tripped the line between giving your advice and being pretty rude.

[fazer71]

Really !

I'm not the one calling someone a @#$%& arsehole

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

No, you were the one who inferred she was a "sad small brained selfish ignorant" person, badgered her with a sarcastic post about whether she got a free holiday and was generally unnecessarily aggressive in tone.

I don't particularly agree with her position either, but I think I might have been provoked to the retort she made to you in private from the way you are going on at her.

[fazer71]

I did nothing of the sort!

Read back on my posts

I didn't deserve a disgusting pm

If he/she took my posts in that way there is still no justification in insulting me via pm or otherwise.

Ffs disgusting

[edcam]

I'd stop now if I were you fazer, you're not doing yourself any favours.