Trains just getting worse? What can we do?

[James]

Coming home from the theatre on Sunday I noticed there were only two trains per hour to Peckham Rye. I hope this is not an ongoing situation? When I first moved to East Dulwich there was a train to London Bridge every ten minutes on weekdays. Now there are only four per hour, badly spaced. What with no London Bridge-Charing Cross trains at the moment, my morning Thameslink service is overrun with people going to Elephant & Castle instead, to get straight onto the tube into the West End. The trains are often late and/or cancelled. The whole system is creaking under the strain, overcrowding is a daily occurrence... Does anyone know when any of this will get better? And why, while more and more people are using the trains from East Dulwich and Peckham, there seems to be no improvement whatsoever in frequency or capacity?

[Earl Aelfheah]

I agree with you, the situation is pretty unacceptable. SE London is woefully under served by public transport.

[Jeremy]

Isn't this a temporary situation? My understanding was that we'd revert to the previous frequency when the London Bridge work is complete.

[jimmyraj]

The growth in demand for travel from Peckham Rye has been huge over the last five or so years. Partly a result of the arrival of the London Overground, which has offset some of the increased demand - but I think more as a result of many more people choosing it as a station to commute from than previously. Either people travelling by other means; or just to the growth in incomers to Peckham.

The station itself can't cope at all. Most mornings now there is congestion getting into and out of the station and through the barriers in peak hours. Also in peak hours the situation on platforms three and four - where there are no station staff supervising at all, ever (presumably because they serve Thameslink and SE Trains and it's a Southern Trains run station - is verging on very dangerous, with overcrowded narrow platforms.

I hope the SE and Thameslink services will improve and get back to nearer to timetabled time when the London Bridge works are finished, but I suspect they probably won't. Hopefully again the move to bring in the suburban operators to TFL will have a positive effect on the number of trains serving the station - as there needs to be a greater increase in frequency of services to match the growth in demand.

Would also be good if, as well as all of the squabbling and delays over the square (or no square) in front of the station; some thought could be put into how to make the station itself function better as a station. New restaurants are great but they don't help people get to work. There's surely a case for creating a new entrance from Blenheim Grove or through the arches - especially to alleviate congestion on platforms three and four.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Both Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill get dangerously overcrowded. ED has seen very little change in capacity over the last decade or so (it went down from 6 tph to 4 and then back to 6), despite a huge increase in passenger numbers. Fundamentally, there needs to be higher frequency trains. As SE London develops and the population grows, the need to provide similiar transport to that which already exists in most other parts of inner London also increases.

[Monkey]

Transport used to be good. I've been working in Moorgate for seven years. Until the work started at London Brisge, I was always on time for nursery pick up without rushing. Now, I really, really struggle and have to leave work at 4.50pm. Good thing husband now works from home. It's a real problem. Not sure what we can do. I tried to engage with Southern but it's like talking to a brick wall. I find them obstructive and objectionable. I remember reading that the service would soon be run by Transport for London. Could make things better ...or worse!

[spanglysteve]

Monkey Wrote:

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> Transport used to be good. I've been working in

> Moorgate for seven years. Until the work started

> at London Brisge, I was always on time for nursery

> pick up without rushing. Now, I really, really

> struggle and have to leave work at 4.50pm. Good

> thing husband now works from home. It's a real

> problem. Not sure what we can do. I tried to

> engage with Southern but it's like talking to a

> brick wall. I find them obstructive and

> objectionable. I remember reading that the service

> would soon be run by Transport for London. Could

> make things better ...or worse!

You may have previously been on time, but without doing the fundamental work they are now doing at London Bridge, over the years your journey would have got progressively worse.

There is never a good time to do a major remodelling of a station and the approach tracks into it (which is the real problem currently), but in suffering this pain for the next few years a tonne of extra capacity can be released which is what we are all fundamentally asking for.

We just have to realise that these things take time to complete as every effort is made to keep the station functioning which temporarily reduces its capacity.

[goosey-goosey]

I wonder if the decision to route the Bakerloo line extension down the Old Kent Rd rather than PR/ED might, just might, see TfL and Network Rail release extra capacity on our severely congested, existing rail lines and maybe (re)open new lines. A direct service from PR to Charing Cross, anyone?

[Bic Basher]

goosey-goosey Wrote:

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> I wonder if the decision to route the Bakerloo

> line extension down the Old Kent Rd rather than

> PR/ED might, just might, see TfL and Network Rail

> release extra capacity on our severely congested,

> existing rail lines and maybe (re)open new lines.

> A direct service from PR to Charing Cross, anyone?

The much improved interchange at London Bridge should negate the need for a direct service.

[healey]

The lack of a direct rail link north to the West End lies at the very core of the area's transport problems. People either trundle up Walworth Rd or head east/west usng rail/tube links.

[Earl Aelfheah]

healey Wrote:

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> The lack of a direct rail link north to the West

> End lies at the very core of the area's transport

> problems. People either trundle up Walworth Rd or

> head east/west usng rail/tube links.

^this. We should have campaigned hard for a direct Charing Cross train before the works at London Bridge really got started. Think it's too late now. I'm hoping that there may be an increase in trains once TFL take over, but even if there is, it's likely to be fairly marginal.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Some frequent bus services to Brixton would be good. Or even some secure bike parking. Both a bit more achievable in the short term and would make it easier to get into the West End.

[tiger ranks]

unfortunately there is not much we can do about it we are all fed up with this on going problem in London stations

we can contact TFL etc but they will fob you off some way

[Jeremy]

If you need a direct link to the West End, moving to ED was a terrible decision!

[Earl Aelfheah]

It shouldn't be too difficult to get into central London and indeed in the past it has been much easier. I don't need to get into the West End regularly, but living only 5 miles away, I think it's reasonable to expect the journey to take less than an hour minimum. Losing the link between London Bridge and Charing Cross is a bummer. The Thameslink is currently so unreliable as to be unusable imo. The number of trains from Denmark Hill to Victoria have reduced significantly. Add to this the increase in bus time travelling north, the reduction in reliability in trains from ED to London Bridge and massive increase in passenger numbers and it's all pretty poor. Saying 'live somewhere else' is not particularly helpful or constructive.

[Earl Aelfheah]

...and let's those responsible for providing public transport off the hook.

[Jeremy]

ED and Peckham are good for commuting to the city (putting the current temporary situation to one side). Other areas are good for the west end, but not so convenient for the city (e.g. Putney, Wandsworth). Just the way it is.

You can't expect every area of London to have a direct link into the west end.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I don't necessarily think we should have a direct link. I do think that journey times getting longer and longer is a problem.

[Earl Aelfheah]

In fact, I have suggested some secure bike parking at Brixton and some more buses connecting to the tube there. This seems pretty modest to me and possibly more constructive than 'just move'.

More long term I do think there needs to be much bigger improvements in public transport as the population of London grows - and yes, a particular focus on SE London, which has very little in the way of high frequency services when compared to the rest of the Capital.

[DuncanW]

When the LB to Charing X service is running it's not too bad. The change takes about five mins - the trains take a while to get to Charing X, but that's the same on that line wherever you start from.

In the meantime it's frustrating. I had to do it at the weekend and on my return journey I took the Circle/District Line from Embankment to Monument, walked across London Bridge, then got the train back to ED. It seemed quicker than any other way I have tried lately.

[James]

There are some things they could do that seem like quick, easy wins. But presumably there is no will to do it as operators are not incentivised to make things better - only to do the bare minimum under their contractual obligations.

One example would be reopening the abandoned East Brixton station on the London Overground, giving us a direct link to Brixton and interchange with the tube there. This seems blindingly obvious and nowhere near as costly as building an interchange at the actual tube station. Why are they not doing it?

[nxjen]

For those seeking a direct train line from ED to Charing Cross, I'm no engineer but there would be huge logistical problems. The line from ED joins the lines from Kent and other places in SE London at Southwark Park Road. ED trains get in at London Bridge at platform 14/15, the line that carries trains to Charing Cross from London Bridge commences at platform 6. So tracks would have to be built with points changes to bring trains from platform 14 to platform 6 on the length of track from Southwark Bridge Road to London Bridge. Possible I guess but it would affect the running of all trains from Kent, rest of SE London and ED line. Could only result in fewer trains all round and more delays.

[Jeremy]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> In fact, I have suggested some secure bike parking

> at Brixton and some more buses connecting to the

> tube there. This seems pretty modest to me and

> possibly more constructive than 'just move'.

If that's aimed at me, you must have misunderstood.

Someone else said that the lack of a direct west end link was the core problem. I disagree - and I repeat - it's not realistic to expect every area to have a direct link into the west end.

[ed_pete]

James Wrote:

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> There are some things they could do that seem like

> quick, easy wins. But presumably there is no will

> to do it as operators are not incentivised to make

> things better - only to do the bare minimum under

> their contractual obligations.

>

> One example would be reopening the abandoned East

> Brixton station on the London Overground, giving

> us a direct link to Brixton and interchange with

> the tube there. This seems blindingly obvious and

> nowhere near as costly as building an interchange

> at the actual tube station. Why are they not doing

> it?

I was going to say something similar. The lack of an interchange between the ginger line and Brixton tube seems ridiculous to say the least.

[mikeb]

http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/02/connecting-brixton-to-the-london-overground-line-petition-launched-to-reopen-east-brixton-station/

The station does look a little precarious ...