Parking ticket for loading...grrrrrr....

[pepsi]

northlondoner Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Pepsi - you presumably therefore agree that the

> parking wardens must also be fined when parking

> illegally - as witnessed by a number of folk on

> this forum...

I completely agree with that, yes!

[LordshipLovely]

Left my car on Pellatt Road, at the junction with Landcroft Road, overnight on Saturday and had a ticket when I went to pick up my car on Sunday morning.

I was parked at the end of a row of cars, was not jutting out, and didn't see any signs/yellow lines.

The ticket says I 'Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a dropped footway'.

Does anyone know what signage there is on Pellat Road (i'm not living in ED at the moment so would save me a trip over tonight to check)? Do I have a leg to stand on with regards to appealing?

Thanks for any help, LL.

[Jeremy]

Were you - as the ticket implies - next to a dropped kerb?

If you were, then it's a fair cop!

[LordshipLovely]

Let's just say, if I was, it wasn't obvious that I might be obstructing anything or in anyone's way. To my mind, I was parked safely, there were no signs or yellow lines, I wasn't worried about residents parking as it was Sat/Sun and you still end up getting clobbered!

I only noticed the ticket when I was halfway up the road and sat in a queue of traffic and I had no inclination to turn back and have a look!

[Mark]

Have a read of this Dropped Kerbs - contravention code 27, it will shed some light on it.

[LordshipLovely]

That's extremely useful thanks Mark. It can't hurt to appeal anyway. Even if I don't win at least it delays payment for a bit.

Thanks.

[Moos]

Probably a stupid question, but does 'adjacent to' mean 'parked over'? You are allowed to park next to a dropped kerb area, aren't you?

[ianr]

Traffic Management Act 2004 s.86(3) (Prohibition of parking at dropped footways etc.)

"The second exception is where the vehicle is parked outside residential premises by or with the consent (but not consent given for reward) of the occupier of the premises.

"This exception does not apply in the case of a shared driveway."

[ruffers]

You're not allowed to block the dropped kerb although it's relevant if it's a disabled ramp as opposed to a driveway. (I think). As the OP couldn't be bothered checking once they finally noticed a ticket attached to the car after driving half way down the road, we may never know.

[eater81]

The only way to get off tickets is to go to court.

The brainless morons in the council offices rarely have enough intelligence to understand an appeal, even if sent in with conclusive evidence.

A couple of years ago I got a ticket for "parking in a loading bay with no evidence of loading" in Stoke newington. I had at the time been collecting panes of glass from a nearby glass shop.

I obtained a signed and dated receipt from the glass shop as evidence, and sent it into the appeals office. Turned down so I went to Marylebone Magistrates court to get off.

What a circus, a complete and utter shambles. The place was full of people like myself whose tickets should have been reversed at an earlier stage, but instead had to take a morning off work for the court to waste thousands of pounds of tax payer's money (judges and CPS lwawyers don't come cheap) to go through the formailities of aquitting them.

The whole system is a farce, I'm off out on lunch now, hopefully I will encounter a traffic warden on my way out so that I can batter him with a dead fish.

[LordshipLovely]

ruffers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You're not allowed to block the dropped kerb

> although it's relevant if it's a disabled ramp as

> opposed to a driveway. (I think). As the OP

> couldn't be bothered checking once they finally

> noticed a ticket attached to the car after driving

> half way down the road, we may never know.

Look, I was in a rush, jumped in the car and drove off without noticing, and had no inclination of going back as had somewhere to be and was already stuck in traffic. I am going to go back tonight and look, just wondered if anyone knew where I meant. That's all.

Believe me, ?60 is a lot of money to me, if there was any chance I thought I might end up with a ticket I would never have parked there.

[ianr]

Lovely> I am going to go back tonight and look

Why not check the photograph on the Southwark website too? Perhaps best start here. http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/TMAAdjudicatorsHome.htm

[ruffers]

Sorry if I misunderstood...

If you were parked across these dropped kerbs or similar, then my understanding is you are due a ticket yes.

View Larger Map

[LordshipLovely]

God, I probably was. I must admit, I was pretty sure that there were normally lines around the corners of roads if you weren't supposed to use the space. My main concern was that I wasn't jutting out at all.

Oh well, can't hurt to appeal, even if all it does is stalls the payment for a bit.

I have just looked up the PCN number on the Southwark website and the details are on there, however there is no picture (yet?).

[Domitianus]

Here's an idea - if these twats are being paid commission for the number of tickets they issue, let's introduce a 'negative marking scheme'. In other words they get their pay docked ?5 or something for every ticket they issue improperly and that is subsequently overturned on appeal. It might encourage them to be a bit more diligent in future instead of ticketing everything and hoping for the best!

Anyone care to join a petition on the subject? Could James Barber perhaps comment?

[TJ]

They don't get paid commission. Its an urban myth and illegal to incentivise parking wardens.

[Loz]

Here's an idea - if these @#$%& are being paid commission for the number of tickets they issue, let's introduce a 'negative marking scheme'.

I think that the authorities should pay you the amount of the ticket if it overturned. At the moment there is no reason for councils to reduce the number of false tickets. Currently, at the very worst, they just don't get the fine, so there is no disincentive.

It's a bit like having the penalty for robbing a bank as 'you don't get to keep the loot'.

[Jeremy]

TJ Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> They don't get paid commission. Its an urban myth

> and illegal to incentivise parking wardens.

I always thought they were, but maybe you're right.

A quick bit of googling indicates that they have targets/quotas to meet, and their jobs are in danger if they don't. Surely that's just as bad, if not worse!

[ianr]

The parking appeal statistics for Jul-Dec 2009 are in the March 2010 PATAS newletter. http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/newsletters.htm. 971 appeals were submitted against Southwark decisions; 713 of them were allowed. Some of the column headings (eg DNC) don't seem to be explained anywhere, so some qualification of that figure might be needed. I'm emailing them to suggest that more explanation would be useful.

[ruffers]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Here's an idea - if these @#$%& are being paid

> commission for the number of tickets they issue,

> let's introduce a 'negative marking scheme'.

>

> I think that the authorities should pay you the

> amount of the ticket if it overturned. At the

> moment there is no reason for councils to reduce

> the number of false tickets. Currently, at the

> very worst, they just don't get the fine, so there

> is no disincentive.

>

> It's a bit like having the penalty for robbing a

> bank as 'you don't get to keep the loot'.

I think there is an incentive for them to reduce the number of invalid tickets in terms of the time and cost of processing them....

[Skye]

Hope no one minds me jumping on the back of this thread, but I am looking for a bit of advice too. I got a parking ticket 8pm on a Saturday evening (20th March) for parking in a disabled bay. I totally never knew it was there, it was dark and raining and I simply missed it. Anyhow, when I pick my car up the next morning I noticed I had a ticket, ironically I drove to LL so to save in cab fares - not happy I come home, accepted defeat and coughed up ?60.

Last week I get a letter saying I owe ?180. I call up and explain I have paid this and I am told I was issued with 2 tickets and that I omitted to pay the fine for Sunday 21st March which was issued at 8.30am. Now there was without doubt only 1 ticket on my car, and can they even fine me for the same offence twice? Cheeky sods!

Should I appeal?

[Carrot]

I have also fallen foul of over zealous wardens. I stopped briefly in loading bay on Lordship lane. I was neither loading or parking, but checking my rear wheel as something in the road got caught in it and was making an odd noise It was 6.45 in the morning so no one on the road I walked around to the back of the car by the time I got to the front there was a warden taking a picture. I pointed out that I was not parked that I there was a fault with my car and therefore had to stop + it was a loading bay which you are allowed to stop for 40 minutes. He refused to budge and then duly issued me a ticket I also got fined 120 pound for what would have been less than a minute stopping my car! I feel very angry that these wardens essentially have carte blanche to do whatever they want and extort ridiculous fines. By the way I am appealing!

[blackadder]

ianr Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The parking appeal statistics for Jul-Dec 2009 are

> in the March 2010 PATAS newletter.

> http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/newslet

> ters.htm. 971 appeals were submitted against

> Southwark decisions; 713 of them were allowed.

> Some of the column headings (eg DNC) don't seem to

> be explained anywhere, so some qualification of

> that figure might be needed. I'm emailing them

> to suggest that more explanation would be useful.

DNC= Did Not Contest: means that the the authority

did not contest the PCN at the independent parking tribunal stage.

Basicly Southwark, in 34% of appeals which go to the parking tribunal stage, after

they have rejected your formal representation, realise they will lose

and decide to drop out a few days before the hearing.

I'ts a cynical game of bluff to part with your money.

Overall Southwark lost 79% of cases that went to appeal.(July to December 2009 figures.)

The second highest in London.

Patas newsletter

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:D8jgwx3KN3kJ:www.patas.gov.uk/documents/PATASnewsletter-March2010_000.doc+patas+news+letter&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

[blackadder]

TJ Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> They don't get paid commission. Its an urban myth

> and illegal to incentivise parking wardens.

It's well known within the industry that parking wardens

with a high ticket count are rewarded with overtime and more lucrative shifts.

I suggest a rung or two up the chain, the managers are paid bonuses by their contractor,

if the wardens can reach their ticketing targets.

[Jeremy]

Skye - I think because the 2nd ticket was issued on the following day, you may have to pay both.

But you should be able to reduce the ?180 fine to ?60 when you tell them that you didn't receive the ticket. It is definitely worth appealing on that basis.