Secondary school places offer day

[LondonMix]

Like I said, I was simply clarifying that the system is designed for everyone to put preferences first and that doing so in no way disadvantages anyone from their more realistic options if those are placed lower down on the list. In fact by doing so you automatically get on the waiting lists for the preferred schools if you are not admitted in the first round of offers.

[nunheadmum]

Great that so many folk seem to have got good options this year. The extra bulge classes really seem to have helped - along with Charter ED coming into the mix.

Renata - is there any prospect next year that we'll know about bulge classes before we need to make our choices? I can see now that this often happens with primaries now that the issue of applicant numbers is apparent. I appreciate that it may not have a massive impact on the choice we make but knowing if a closer school is going to bulge may increase the chance of friends going to the same school, which could swing your preferences.

[Sunglasses]

Bidibulle Wrote:

> We are very surprised that we didn't get offered a

> place at the new Charter since we are 0.55 mile as

> the crow flies from the nodal point on Jarvis Road

> but I guess there will be some movement and we

> should go up the waiting list soon.

So the Charter ED catchment area is smaller than 0.55miles in its first year! Ouch

[landsberger]

Sunglasses Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bidibulle Wrote:

> > We are very surprised that we didn't get offered

> a

> > place at the new Charter since we are 0.55 mile

> as

> > the crow flies from the nodal point on Jarvis

> Road

> > but I guess there will be some movement and we

> > should go up the waiting list soon.

>

> So the Charter ED catchment area is smaller than

> 0.55miles in its first year! Ouch

Given they are only taking 120 kids this year, I am not entirely surprised.

[landsberger]

nunheadmum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Great that so many folk seem to have got good

> options this year. The extra bulge classes really

> seem to have helped - along with Charter ED coming

> into the mix.

>

> Renata - is there any prospect next year that

> we'll know about bulge classes before we need to

> make our choices? I can see now that this often

> happens with primaries now that the issue of

> applicant numbers is apparent. I appreciate that

> it may not have a massive impact on the choice we

> make but knowing if a closer school is going to

> bulge may increase the chance of friends going to

> the same school, which could swing your

> preferences.

Bear in mind, Nunheadmum, that all the secondary schools in Southwark are academies, free schools or VA schools, so are their own admissions authority. They are supposed to inform the Council (not consult - they do not need Southwark's approval) if they are expanding, but inevitably, they don't do this. Which is regrettable for parents if one of the attractions of the schools is the relatively low admissions number, or, conversely, allowing parents the chance to apply and stand a chance of admission.

[Sunglasses]

landsberger Wrote:

> > So the Charter ED catchment area is smaller

> than

> > 0.55miles in its first year! Ouch

>

> Given they are only taking 120 kids this year, I

> am not entirely surprised.

I thought catchment areas of popular schools generally only ever get smaller?

[LondonMix]

Their PAN will be larger when they have their school building (they'll be admitting 240 a year so the double of this year). All things being equal that would double the furthest distance offer.

Equally important though is that their admission this year was outside the preference system. Everyone who wanted it as an option, including a last option were treated equally. In future years, people (like some on this thread) that preferred other schools over Charter ED will put the other schools first and potentially be allocated their preference rather than automatically being given a place at Charter that they reject.

There should be more movement on the waitlist this year at Charter ED than in future years but the first round distance offer should be further away with less movement on the waiting list once the schools is part of the coordinated Southwark Admission process.

Not sure if I've explained that well so someone else have a crack if this read like gibberish...

Sunglasses Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> landsberger Wrote:

> > > So the Charter ED catchment area is smaller

> > than

> > > 0.55miles in its first year! Ouch

> >

> > Given they are only taking 120 kids this year,

> I

> > am not entirely surprised.

>

> I thought catchment areas of popular schools

> generally only ever get smaller?

[mrs.lotte]

Re Charter ED I think that the PAN next year will also be 120 whilst the permanent site will be only partially built (sports facilities to be completed by then for example)

Thereafter it will double BUT that year is the mega bulge peak need year (according to the Southwark stats) and I believe there will be a lot of siblings (certainly the fact it is mixed and I have a daughter who will be starting secondary in 2018 makes this the most attractive option for us this year over the boys school - which I think is an otherwise fantastic option - that we were also offered).

This is one of the reasons I think it was short sighted of Kingsdale to bulge quite so dramatically this year limiting, I would have thought, their ability to do so in future years when need is greater.

Anyway I'm not seeking to freak out parents with children going into secondary next year, personally I thought there were some brilliant options which fly under the radar - Deptford Green, The Elm Green and COLA for example and others which are also great but not yet as popular as Charter and Kingsdale but have super ofsted/results/facilities - eg the Harris schools and St Thomas the apostle.

[LondonMix]

The mega shortage for 2018 is now 2020 as the opening of the Charter school has mitigated the original figures. I believe the shortage is meant to be in the north of the borough not down here so it shouldn't necessarily shrink Charter ED's catchment after its intake doubles but I'm not 100% sure of that. Also, Southwark underestimated the applications for this year so anything can happen.

I do think that the catchment of this school with a full intake and part of the normal preference application system is much more likely to be near a mile (possibly more) than half a mile.

It'll be interesting to see what final distance is this year once all the movement on the waitlist is done.

[Cora]

Anyone else having problems getting an email response from Lewisham? Southwark have been fantastic at getting back with queries but I haven't even got acknowledgement for my emails to Lewisham?....Does this suggest they are in more of a state than Southwark who seem to have done well this year? I only want to know where I am on a waiting list..

Renata any advice, inside info or top tips on getting a response?

Thanks

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Cora, I do know from previous years that Lewisham tend not to give out waiting list positions or add people onto waiting lists by request until after the initial shake up, usually close to Easter. So you may need to wait for a while.

It's hard to know what will happen to the CharterED last place distance once it is integrated into the Londonwide system.

Nunheadmum, as LondonMix states, all the secondaries in Southwark are outside LA control, and therefore set their own admissions policies and numbers. The only thing know of admissions wise for the Nunhead area is that I think Haberdasher's Aske's admissions policy is changing for 2017 entry. There have been changes to the sibling policy, taking siblings of sixth formers out of the equation and also admissions will be purely on distance with no banding involved. There will no longer be the pot luck of how far a particular band stretches. Deptford Green is a popular school with Nunhead Residents, and if you have a boy, there is the outstanding St Thomas the Apostle and the Harris schools if you are near the Peckham Rye side of Nunhead. Some girls from the area go to Sydenham Girl's and there is the Kingsdale Lottery.

Renata

[flocker spotter]

mrs.lotte Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Re Charter ED I think that the PAN next year will

> also be 120 whilst the permanent site will be only

> partially built (sports facilities to be completed

> by then for example)

>

> Thereafter it will double BUT that year is the

> mega bulge peak need year (according to the

> Southwark stats) and I believe there will be a lot

> of siblings (certainly the fact it is mixed and I

> have a daughter who will be starting secondary in

> 2018 makes this the most attractive option for us

> this year over the boys school - which I think is

> an otherwise fantastic option - that we were also

> offered).

>

> This is one of the reasons I think it was short

> sighted of Kingsdale to bulge quite so

> dramatically this year limiting, I would have

> thought, their ability to do so in future years

> when need is greater.

>

> Anyway I'm not seeking to freak out parents with

> children going into secondary next year,

> personally I thought there were some brilliant

> options which fly under the radar - Deptford

> Green, The Elm Green and COLA for example and

> others which are also great but not yet as popular

> as Charter and Kingsdale but have super

> ofsted/results/facilities - eg the Harris schools

> and St Thomas the apostle.

The Gipsy Hill Federation is opening a new secondary school close to Kingsdale which will surely eat into the latter's intake. This may be why the school is bulging now to hold on to families later....

[landsberger]

Sunglasses Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> landsberger Wrote:

> > > So the Charter ED catchment area is smaller

> > than

> > > 0.55miles in its first year! Ouch

> >

> > Given they are only taking 120 kids this year,

> I

> > am not entirely surprised.

>

> I thought catchment areas of popular schools

> generally only ever get smaller?

Not when they are due to double in size in 2018.......

[Gubodge]

The initial 'catchment' for Charter 2 is so small because everyone put it down. There was no reason not to, as it was separate from the standard admissions application so it was the perfect back up. Once everyone who has been offered Charter 1, Kingsdale or any other good known quantity has turned down their Charter 2 place the catchment will expand a lot. We're over 150 on the waiting list, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if we were ultimately offered a place.

[nunheadmum]

Renata - I visited lots of schools this year with my daughter ahead of the year we make the choice and was pleasantly surprised by how decent they all seemed. We expect we'll have preferences but none were awful - which is reassuring. And I understand that the schools are all in control of their own policies in Southwark.

However my question was as to whether the bulge classes are public knowledge at the point that parents are putting in the applications in October ( as has often been the case lately with the primaries such as Ivydale) or are they only created in response to the number of applications made? Even if Southwark aren't the body having the conversations with the schools, do you know when the decisions are made and made public?

I have a list of at least 7 possible schools, 5 of which are all outside chances, 1 is slightly more possible but isn't my preferred option and one that is a near cert but my least favourite. That leaves me 5 spaces and at least 6 contenders above my dead cert. It would be rather annoying if the one I left off then bulged after the application was submitted and that would have meant my child could have got in.

I know the system is imperfect and - at secondary level - it's not in Southwark's control. But as parents we still do want to be sure we do all that we can. And then we just need to cross our fingers that it was the right choice.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Nunheadmum, the decisions on bulges can be made at any time. Southwark tends to have its primary bulges organised well inn advance of application deadlines (most of the Borough's primaries are under LA control) If I hear of any secondaries bulging for 2017, I will post this. Once all the distances are known for this year, it may give you a better idea of which of your preferred schools you could drop as the chances of you getting they would be minimal. I'm happy to help you if you need assistance via pm or email.

Renata

[landsberger]

> However my question was as to whether the bulge

> classes are public knowledge at the point that

> parents are putting in the applications in October

You will need to ask the schools and academies that. Kingsdale are constantly inconstant in this respect !

> (as has often been the case lately with the

> primaries such as Ivydale)

i.e. the ones under Council control !

> or are they only

> created in response to the number of applications

> made?

I think a view is taken based on the projected numbers (based on births and other inputs), number of applications received, what else is happening locally (including across the border in other boroughs). For Council schools, that is. For academies, as stated previously, they can do what they want, even if it means the school next door closes down.

> Even if Southwark aren't the body having the

> conversations with the schools, do you know when

> the decisions are made and made public?

The Council considers the pupil numbers in the summer of the year preceding the admissions year, so for September 2017, it will be this year.

> I have a list of at least 7 possible schools, 5 of

> which are all outside chances, 1 is slightly more

> possible but isn't my preferred option and one

> that is a near cert but my least favourite. That

> leaves me 5 spaces and at least 6 contenders above

> my dead cert. It would be rather annoying if the

> one I left off then bulged after the application

> was submitted and that would have meant my child

> could have got in.

Generally *if* the school is a council school, you will know before you apply.

> I know the system is imperfect and - at secondary

> level - it's not in Southwark's control. But as

> parents we still do want to be sure we do all that

> we can. And then we just need to cross our

> fingers that it was the right choice.

It's only going to get worse when all schools are taken out of council control.

[Sunglasses]

Where do you find the information about 'bulge' years? I.e. years where Southwark anticipates peak demand for school places?

[LondonMix]

The govt regularly publish updates.

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s55562/Report%20Primary%20and%20secondary%20school%20place%20planning%20strategy%20and%20Appendices%201-3.pdf

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Londonmix, this is actually Southwark's primary strategy! It's updated on a regular basis

Renata

[landsberger]

According to the strategy, a lot of places are being made available this September - either permanent enlargements, or bulge classes becoming permanent. I don't think there will be a lot of bulge classes this time next year, and, looking at Dulwich as a whole, there doesn't seem to be the demand for additional primary schools in the area, just yet.

[LondonMix]

Hi Renata- its actually both! From page 8 the document starts discussing the secondary school strategy, place needs, anticipated expansions and timing of shortfalls for secondary schools in Southwark etc. The first half of the document is devoted to the primary school place strategy

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Londonmix, this is actually Southwark's primary

> strategy! It's updated on a regular basis

> Renata

[landsberger]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Renata- its actually both! From page 8 the

> document starts discussing the secondary school

> strategy, place needs, anticipated expansions and

> timing of shortfalls for secondary schools in

> Southwark etc. The first half of the document is

> devoted to the primary school place strategy

>

>

> Renata Hamvas Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Hi Londonmix, this is actually Southwark's

> primary

> > strategy! It's updated on a regular basis

> > Renata

Usually updated annually. So I imagine Southwark are already talking to schools already about expanding (or staying as they are). I suppose, in essence, it depends on this year's enrolment figures to see where schools can be expanded, if appropriate.

No doubt Councillor Barber will be here soon saying we need another 20 schools in East Dulwich....

Is anyone actually seriously suggesting ED is short of primary or secondary places ?

[LondonMix]

I don't think anyone has said the area is short of places. The new secondary will ultimately be 8 form entry. I don't believe we've ever had 8 primary schools bulging simultaneously in this general area (before all the new openings and expansions). So the new Charter School should at worst maintain the status quo catchment sizes from before it opened and probably expand the catchments of the other schools moderately despite the bulge in secondary demand that is coming.

[Cora]

In case anyone is phoning for Lewisham waiting lists they will not give out any figures until Weds 16th (tomorrow is final day for accepting/rejecting). Don't waste your time queuing like I did!!