Secondary school places offer day

[emc]

Hello - does anyone know what time of day these offers will come if you've applied online? Can the offer come any time after midnight on the 1st March? I'm not asking for me - I'm working on this for ITV and need to find a group of parents who will find out which school their child has been allocated by around 7am on Tuesday 1st March but I'm not sure if that's how it works...Thanks v much

[Cora]

Offers come by email in the evening, after 5pm I think?

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi EMC, you won't find any London ones as the London results as Cora says above come out after 5pm by email. I think some LAs elsewhere do release them earlier in the day, but I don't know who.

Renata

[landsberger]

Cora Wrote:

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> Offers come by email in the evening, after 5pm I

> think?

That's what happened last year. So I imagine ITV may be disappointed.

[Shuggy]

During the evening of the 1st March 2016 you will be sent your secondary school/UTC outcome by email. Also you will receive notification by either parentcomms/text if you signed up to them.

You will be able to view the results of your application online during the evening of 1 March 2016. You will also be sent a letter by first class post on 1 March 2016 which will provide more information regarding the decision and what to do next. Application results will not be provided over the telephone.

From Southwark admissions site http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200290/secondary_school_admissions/1827/offers_of_a_secondary_school_place

[emc]

Thanks for this - we are doing the item on the day AFTER the results too so would love to hear from any parents who are upset at not getting their first choices (I imagine there will be many) - this would to be live on the show, only for a minute or so. I'm going to be going through it next year and am not looking forward to it...pls PM if you think you can help.

Thanks so much

[Lou]

Nice to know you / ITV are taking such a non biased positive approach....

[landsberger]

Sounds like the ITV story is already written, if truth be told. If a school gets over 1000 1st choice applicants, and there are 180 places, then there are going to be a lot of disappointed parents. What are ITV and the concerned parents suggesting - that the school expands to take 1000 pupils in reception? Where would they go ? How happy would parents be to be in a school with 30 odd forms of entry ? How would other schools react to this ?

It's the same story, year-in, year out for primary and secondary admissions day, and yet no-one actually explains what they think would be a fairer and more equitable way of allocating school places and meeting demand. They are solely concerned with their own child, and sod the rest.

emc Wrote:

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> Thanks for this - we are doing the item on the day

> AFTER the results too so would love to hear from

> any parents who are upset at not getting their

> first choices (I imagine there will be many) -

> this would to be live on the show, only for a

> minute or so. I'm going to be going through it

> next year and am not looking forward to it...pls

> PM if you think you can help.

>

> Thanks so much

[LondonMix]

I think what people want is for all schools to be so good that no one really cares which one they get into. That's how it is some parts of the world and ideally that's where things will go in the UK.

In the 10 years or so I've lived here I've seen the angst around primary school decline dramatically. Except for those in blackholes afraid of being allocated a school miles away, people now largely feel that if they get most any of the local ED schools, their kids will be fine.

People still have their preferences, but there isn't a sink school or only one good school you must get into.

Hopefully, that attitude will become common for secondary school places soon as none of the secondaries around here are bad academically. Though you'd think the Charter was the only hope of a decent education from the chatter...

I think its a bit irresponsible for ITV to comb for the few potentially upset parents before evaluating how many people got one of their top 3 choices so they can weigh if there really is a scandal worth reporting.

[landsberger]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> I think its a bit irresponsible for ITV to comb

> for the few potentially upset parents before

> evaluating how many people got one of their top 3

> choices so they can weigh if there really is a

> scandal worth reporting.

Makes for good copy, though, and allows the Daily Express and Daily Mail to bash local councils, once again. Even though they do not do the admissions for secondary schools !

[emc]

Oh for goodness sake - I work for an ITV breakfast show where national offer day will be one of the top news stories on that day (as it will be on BBC Breakfast, other breakfast radio shows, lunchtime news set) Based on last year's (and previous years) stats of (the sizeable) percentages of people who miss out on their first choice schools in London and various other parts of the country, it is a story. We're just trying to make two mins of TV, that's all. Please PM me if you think you can help. Thank you

[landsberger]

You run the same story, year in, year out and it's completely toxic; it perpetuates myth after myth about schools, admissions and the role (or lack of it) of local councils - you never, ever address the issues such as pseudo-selection by certain schools, the fact the government doesn't fund mainstream schools to expand, but is more than happy to fund places in academies and free schools where there is no discernible need.

The fact that the majority of parents get the place they ask for and the vast majority, one of their first 3 choices is sadly of no interests to hacks.

emc Wrote:

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> Oh for goodness sake - I work for an ITV breakfast

> show where national offer day will be one of the

> top news stories on that day (as it will be on BBC

> Breakfast, other breakfast radio shows, lunchtime

> news set) Based on last year's (and previous

> years) stats of (the sizeable) percentages of

> people who miss out on their first choice schools

> in London and various other parts of the country,

> it is a story. We're just trying to make two mins

> of TV, that's all. Please PM me if you think you

> can help. Thank you

[uncleglen]

It will be interesting to see the stats for this coming year. Last year there was a 3.9% increase in applications going from a primary to a secondary across London and 68% of people got their first choice school.

[landsberger]

Again, I ask the question, with a finite number of places and applications for some schools far in excess of these, what should schools who are oversubscribed do - particularly if they have no room to expand, and particularly, in SOuthwark's case

a) they don't actually run or are the admissions authority for any of the secondary schools and

b) space is at a premium meaning that finding land for s secondary school to be built on won't be a decade long struggle with NIMBY residents and all other schools objecting at the prospect of losing star pupils?

Answers on a postcard from parents and journalists please...

[LondonMix]

ECM, is there really a crisis though if most children attend a good school located within a few miles of their homes? Is it fair to suggest through news reporting that something is fundamentally wrong with the system?

There is no immediate need to build more schools yet in Southwark. There isn't actually a shortage of places for a few more years. Its simply that despite virtually all schools being good or outstanding, parents strongly prefer a select few schools meaning that demand for those schools far outstrips any conceivable supply of places. The only solution to this problem is to make all the secondaries as appealing to parents as the most popular ones.

The question is why do these strong preferences exist? The Charter ED thread showed that the socio-economic mix of schools is one of the top reasons why some parents prefer the most oversubscribed schools. That's not something that can (or even necessarily should) be intentionally addressed via public policy.

News stories like the one proposed just stir the crazy pot adding angst and reinforcing the perpetual feeling of crisis that pervades the school application process.

[tomskip]

Uncleglen - where did you get those stats and how could one find the stats for Southwark? Thanks (apols if I've missed it somewhere on the thread)

[landsberger]

Fill yer boots, Tomskip

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/statistics-school-applications

For 2015, for secondary

59.6% got their 1st preference, 77.3% got first or second, and 86.6% got first, second or third. 93.1% got one of their 6 preferences (i.e 6.9%, or around 1 in 12, did not).

For 2015, for primary

80.0% got their 1st preference, 88.7% got first or second, and 91.9% got first, second or third. 95.6% got one of their 6 preferences (i.e 4.4%, or less 1 in 20, did not).

[uncleglen]

The PanLondon scheme

https://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/download/file/fid/14695

[tomskip]

Thanks uncleglen.

[redjam]

So, landsberger, from what I can gather, those stats relate to the offers made on National Offers Day only, so presumably the percentage of kids who actually end up going to a school they want is higher once the waiting lists have shaken down - is that right?

Came across this para when skimming through the link:

4.13 The Isles of Scilly LA has one school which takes pupils between the ages of 3 and 16. Parents are not required to complete an application form and there is no competition for a place at the school. Therefore this LA has been omitted from both tables as preference rates cannot be calculated.

Now doesn't that sound bliss?!

Good luck tomorrow, people.

[Belle]

I think it's a bit rubbish to jump on EMC like this. It's a totally reasonable story to run, and she's not the only journalist looking for case studies in this area because it IS still an issue. Yes there is provision - but that's if you are fine with, say, single sex provision/faith schools/a long journey. Saying over 90% get one of their six preferences only tells you that those parents were being pragmatic and making sure they filled in all six choices, rather than risking their child ending up with no secondary option. It's a bit of a leap to then assume that getting one of those six places is a good outcome.

Interesting figures Labour put out today from the House of Commons library - it's not rocket science. The pressure we all saw put on primary schools a few years back is now coming to bear on secondary schools.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35671570

[LondonMix]

If a child gets allocated a place within a couple miles of his or her house at a good school, is there really a problem with the system? Today, there is no shortage of secondary school places in Southwark so while forward planning is necessary for the 2018 bulge in demand, why are people unhappy today?

What more can the system realistically do? Force single sex schools to become co-ed? Serious question- what exactly is the problem and a realistic solution in your view?

[landsberger]

redjam Wrote:

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> So, landsberger, from what I can gather, those

> stats relate to the offers made on National Offers

> Day only, so presumably the percentage of kids who

> actually end up going to a school they want is

> higher once the waiting lists have shaken down -

> is that right?

Yes, in the main. People whose kids are going to private schools also apply for school places "just in case" which are then released into the pot. As they often apply to the "more desirable" schools, this frees up spaces at these schools. That's the good news. The "bad news" is that people applying late with good reason are treated as if they made an on time application. So you will get a parent who is 2nd or 3rd on the waiting list who suddenly drops to 5th or 6th.

[landsberger]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> If a child gets allocated a place within a couple

> miles of his or her house at a good school, is

> there really a problem with the system?

No, not really, but to read the middlebrows and the tabloids, you'd think there was. It also fits in with theory that we are being "flooded" and the pressure on school places is a consequence of that.

I agree with you, though, it's not generally a problem in Southwark. It IS a problem elsewhere, and the structure is faulty and these two areas are where they should be concentrating their fire. Local councils also cannot build new schools and have to get academies to open, which delays things further.

> Today,there is no shortage of secondary school places in

> Southwark so while forward planning is necessary

> for the 2018 bulge in demand, why are people

> unhappy today?

Because their child didn't get into Charter/Kingsdale/Haberdashers etc and feel a sense of entitlement that nothing but these schools will do.

> What more can the system realistically do? Force

> single sex schools to become co-ed?

Ironically, parents want their girls (but not necessarily their boys) to be single sex educated.

> Serious question- what exactly is the problem and a

> realistic solution in your view?

I have been banging on about this for years. Each "solution" has its disadvantages. And sadly, people tend only to support the solution that will personally benefit their offspring.

[Belle]

>

> No, not really, but to read the middlebrows and

> the tabloids, you'd think there was.

Just out of interest, what other media (if that's what you're referring to) does that leave?

Two miles might well be fine - a lot depends on how easy it is to actually get to. E.g. Deptford sounds great, and within reach but not particularly easily so. Loads of kids go up to Sydenham girls from Dulwich on a bus - doesn't sound like a problem. I can't speak for everyone but I do remember from the secondary school campaign that the key things people cared about were not "I only want Kingsdale/Charter" but "give me something that's co-ed and not a faith school". To conflate those things is unfair/inaccurate in my opinion.

Another issue is that a lot of kids may have special needs which fall below the threshold of being able to get priority on those grounds (so for instance I've heard parents on this forum discuss dyspraxia in this context). For them, long/complicated journeys to and from school are a problem.

Renata - if you're following this - would be interesting to hear your view on numbers/places once the initial offers have been made.