Foxtons are coming - Fact (ED housing market)

[DiscoDex]

I can confirm that the plans for Foxtons in the old DSS office next to the Seacow have been around for at least 2 years now. I got shown the plans about 18 months ago and to be honest they will make a big improvement to the existing site which curently looks like a prison. The drawings show a glass frontage and LL will be far better for it.

I know Foxtons go about the way they transact business in possbly the wrong way but to be honest all those that currently own property in ED will benefit as house prices will be pushed up (even further!).

What will be interesting will be whether they have an introductory offer (as they do in most other locations when they open a new office) of 0% selling fees. If they do it could spark a lot of people to put houses on market. Given the major reason for people not moving home is the high costs associated with moving (20k +), this could be enough for many people to seriously consider a move.

For those interesed in buying in ED, stand by cos this could spark the biggest influx of property on the market in area for quite a while.................watch this space!!

For DVR, Property in Dulwich, Roy Brooks, Burnet Ware & Graves..............Cheerio!

Disco Dex

[Jeremy]

For crying out loud, how many times do I have to say... not all homeowners benefit from rises in prices! If you have any interest in staying in the area next time you move, then these rises are a bad thing. The only people who gain are those who are just investing in housing in the area to make money. Either that, or you assume that everyone gets a kick from gloating about how much equity they have in their home. It's bullsh!t.

I also find it strange that you take so much joy from the prospect of smaller businesses being muscled out, which have been in the area for ages (not that I extend too much sympathy for estate agents). And as for people not moving for the sake of an agents fee - typically 1%, which is small fry compared to stamp duty - you are totally deluded.

Sorry to sound personal, but that post has really annoyed me! I'm no raving lefty, but housing is a basic necessity - why do people have such a selfish attitude, when others are struggling to afford a place to live?!

[MadWorld74]

DiscoDEx wrote :For those interesed in buying in ED, stand by cos this could spark the biggest influx of property on the market in area for quite a while.................watch this space!!

Right so the house prices are pushed up in ED and this according to you is a good thing? So people who are renting in ED at the moment (filthy low down renting folk like myself) who can't afford the house prices are they are right now, how then de we rejoice in more houses on the market with even hefteier price tags?

Seems that there's only one winner here and it's the property developer.

[Alan Dale]

I agree with you DiscoDex. Foxtons are great at contributing to localised house price inflation and that is good thing for homeowners. Having a substantial amount of equity in your house gives financial security and offers the opportunity to raise capital for other projects and investments.

The only minor downside being as Jeremy mentioned that you may find it more difficult to make a step up in the same area due to price inflation widening the gap between your current property and that which you desire.

I also think that whilst housing is a necessity, homeownership is a luxury. Especially if that home is in such a desirable area as East Dulwich.

That said, this debate has been done to death and nobody here ever seems to alter their opinion so I am reluctant to get drawn into it again other than to let you know that you are not alone in welcoming Foxtons to the area.

[snorky]

foxtons scum.

But you cant blame them I suppsoe - there are enought property = success obsessed people out there who are happy to spend their days grazing the EA windpws and giving themlseves a self congratulatory pat of the back for their unrealised proprty profit.Foxtons are leeches, but they dont operate in a vacuum.

The constant drip of Property porn that pervades our every waking moment has sucked most of the population in.

Look around - howe many single people with huge wads of equity slopping around are really happy ? Cash isnt as substitute for love and relationships - Howe many relatively high earning, well educated people do you knoe that are single & despite the bravado, are using Their jobs and their property as a diversion to stop them thinking about how pointless their lives actually are?

People will realise - sooner or later - that you can never have enough money - you can never say -" thats it " - few retire at 40 to travel the world, despite the wine fulled pap that we hear most nights in the bars of the trendy Lordhsip lane - you buy a better class of wage slavery, a more comfortable place to be unsatisfied in, more baubles to hide trhe dissatisfaction with your cul de sac life but most are still trapped in the vicious vortex of accumulation, but to what End ?

[Jeremy]

Alan Dale Wrote:

> I also think that whilst housing is a necessity,

> homeownership is a luxury. Especially if that home

> is in such a desirable area as East Dulwich.

>

True, I know that on the continent, renting is generally much more common (how many people do you know in England who rent family homes?) But don't increases in property prices also push up rent?

[mockney piers]

It's a complicated relationship but not necessarily. You can have a feeding frenzy on buy-to-let properties that push the housing market up but result in a glut of rental properties that push down rental prices for instance.

[Brendan]

Fair point Mr Dale but in response (from someone who is currently making the transition from renter to owner but is trying to be objective)

If renting was properly regulated and the rights of the renter were protected it would be a viable option but in the UK they are not. Who the hell would want to raise a family in a home where the landlord has the right to turf you out at a whim with 3 months notice or change the rent at his own discretion?

The old landlords and tenants act was amended about 15 years ago to favour landlords because people were being encouraged to buy their homes rather than rent. Now things have changed but those who rent are not afforded any security.

Anyway the only way you are going to make money out of your property is by either moving out of London/or the UK, downsizing or buying a second property. Banks and estate agents do make money out of property prices going up. This is not necessarily a bad thing. In some ways it is good for the economy but at the moment it is causing a social issue with the balance of wealth being divided unequally and along different lines to what it used to be. It is leaving a large section of society (especially in London) who earn too much to be eligible for any kind of government assistance or housing but earn too little to be afforded the security of owning their own home.

What the consequences of this will be in the long run remains to be seen but I?m pretty sure it is going to leave some kind of mark on our society.

[Alan Dale]

Agreed Mcokney- whilst they are interdependent there is not a linear relationship between high house prices and high rental prices. High house prices may drive more people to rent but if they are a product of demand for buy-to-let investment then the surplus rental properties available will have a counteracting deflationary impact on rental prices.

Snorky's point about happiness is interesting and topical. Merits a separate thread though... anyone?

Brendan - I expect the consequences will be migration. Gentrification will ripple outwards from its ED epicentre.

[snorky]

"If renting was properly regulated and the rights of the renter were protected it would be a viable option but in the UK they are not. Who the hell would want to raise a family in a home where the landlord has the right to turf you out at a whim with 3 months notice or change the rent at his own discretion?"

Yup.

[snorky]

Interestingly, I met a quite well known *local artisan* at a place in the area where people take their offspring on sunday mornings for some family time - he is going to be doing some work for us in the near future, but I digress - conversation as all about property and he was earnestly seeking opinion as to future direction of the housing markets & Return of Investment/ Yields / blah blah blah etc, as I do have some *vague* idea of what is going on.

People do not sneak a copy of Razzle back to their bedsits any longer, for some *special personal time*, rather they arm themselves with the Sunday Times property section and a copy of Living south for its full colour spread, fully explict, in depth internal shots, uncensored, property section.

a sign of the times indeed

[Brendan]

Brendan - I expect the consequences will be migration. Gentrification will ripple outwards from its ED epicentre.

You're probably correct there. The scary things is that the resulting migration will be of people like nurses, policemen, social workers, midwives, teachers etc etc. We need these people. Society can?t function without them and from what I?ve heard from friends I have who do these jobs the key worker schemes are pretty much useless.

[MadWorld74]

Brendan wrote:

"If renting was properly regulated and the rights of the renter were protected it would be a viable option but in the UK they are not."....eek, I suddenly feel very overwhlemed and not very well. I'm going to sit in the corner quietly.

[Keef]

They say a house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it... Well when will people start to think maybe they're paying a bit too much?!?!?

My sister bought a house (2 bedroom, quite small but nice) a couple of years back for a pretty good price, and an identical house a couple of doors down is being advertised on LL for ?390k!!!!!! That to me just seems insane!

[snorky]

"They say a house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it... Well when will people start to think maybe they're paying a bit too much?!?!? "

Sometimes humans make decisons that in another light seem absurd, but you can only make a decision depending upon the uinriamtion that you get to think about - people are rarely in full control of the information they receiveand are not able to filter out the "shite" from the the "good" info

[Jeremy]

Well, a house is worth what other people are prepared to pay for it. It's hard to make a stand when the next punter will happily pay 600k for a 3 bed terrace.

[DiscoDex]

Jeremy,

Interesting thoughts but..........

1. I'm not quite sure how an increase in the value of your property can be a bad thing. Fairly simple really. The portion of equity increases which enables you if you were smart to release this equity and re-invest in the area for maybe a buy-to-let investment. This has the benefit of you being able to stay in your current house/flat as well as to re-invest in the community by getting people who can afford higher rents to rent your buy-to-let who then in turn will have more money to buy grande lattes/smoked salmon baguettes from local businesses as they have more money to spend in area. Surely having people that have a higher propensity to spend living in the area can only benefit local businesses rather than be a negative influence!!??

2. Please name all those local businesses that have been muscled out on LL in last few years that we are not glad to rid of. The Foresters????

3. I would say that typical agent fees would be approx 1.5-2.5% (+VAT). Given the average 3 bed house selling for approx 500k in SE22 at the mo this equates to approx 10,000+ which I reckon is a fair bit of cash.

4. I understand your views that housing is a necessity however in the UK in recent years it seems that we all think we have a god given right to own the house we live in. As mentioned by an earlier post, in many other major cities (ie. NY) it is unheard of people living so close to the City and most people rent. Why should it be any different in London??

If people cannot afford to live in ED then they should look at living possibly in Nunhead/Honor Oak/Peckham and stop whinging that ED is too expensive. Maybe even look further out of London till then earn enought to live closer to town.

5. On this forum people often spend too much time critisizing the gentrification of ED and forget the good it has done for the area. I think what is happening in the area is fantastic and should be both celebrated and encouraged. We live in a great place in london and the community spirit is unique and should play a key part to the improvements of LL and surrounding area. If we all happen to make a few bucks as a result of these improvements with the prices of our houses/flats increasing in value, is it wrong to be happy about that cos I don't think so????

DD

[scott]

what about the plague of minis that will be upon us. Parking is pretty dire at the moment....

[snorky]

DiscoDex Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy,

>

> Interesting thoughts but..........

>

> 1. I'm not quite sure how an increase in the value

> of your property can be a bad thing. Fairly simple

> really. The portion of equity increases which

> enables you if you were smart to release this

> equity and re-invest in the area for maybe a

> buy-to-let investment. This has the benefit of you

> being able to stay in your current house/flat as

> well as to re-invest in the community by getting

> people who can afford higher rents to rent your

> buy-to-let who then in turn will have more money

> to buy grande lattes/smoked salmon baguettes from

> local businesses as they have more money to spend

> in area. Surely having people that have a higher

> propensity to spend living in the area can only

> benefit local businesses rather than be a negative

> influence!!??

>

> 2. Please name all those local businesses that

> have been muscled out on LL in last few years that

> we are not glad to rid of. The Foresters????

>

> 3. I would say that typical agent fees would be

> approx 1.5-2.5% (+VAT). Given the average 3 bed

> house selling for approx 500k in SE22 at the mo

> this equates to approx 10,000+ which I reckon is a

> fair bit of cash.

>

> 4. I understand your views that housing is a

> necessity however in the UK in recent years it

> seems that we all think we have a god given right

> to own the house we live in. As mentioned by an

> earlier post, in many other major cities (ie. NY)

> it is unheard of people living so close to the

> City and most people rent. Why should it be any

> different in London??

>

> If people cannot afford to live in ED then they

> should look at living possibly in Nunhead/Honor

> Oak/Peckham and stop whinging that ED is too

> expensive. Maybe even look further out of London

> till then earn enought to live closer to town.

>

> 5. On this forum people often spend too much time

> critisizing the gentrification of ED and forget

> the good it has done for the area. I think what is

> happening in the area is fantastic and should be

> both celebrated and encouraged. We live in a great

> place in london and the community spirit is unique

> and should play a key part to the improvements of

> LL and surrounding area. If we all happen to make

> a few bucks as a result of these improvements with

> the prices of our houses/flats increasing in

> value, is it wrong to be happy about that cos I

> don't think so????

>

> DD

03.50 AM

If I were you DD, I would review this post in the cold sober light of day and see how you come across to the average board reader.

oh dear.

[Jeremy]

DD - afraid I don't have the time or inclination to answer all your points, but suffice to say that I don't agree. Of course I understand that people want to make money, but I think the trend of buy-to-let is unhealthy, and maybe even damaging to our society. And I know that I am not alone in finding your views disagreeable. And actually pretending that these landlords are in some way contributing to the community? Give me a break!

And I never said there was anything wrong with the smartening up of ED, I think the area is great - much better than 6/7 years ago.

[Ted Max]

I don't for a minute imagine DiscoDex is for real. I don't think he's in our time zone, for a start. And if he is, he is an insomniac Foxton's employee.

[Alan Dale]

Harsh reality maybe, but I completely agree with Disco Dex.

Whinging about local house price inflation is a waste of effort. You need to accept it and plan for it as best you can.

Furthermore I think it is unfair to criticise the tone of DD's post as I am sure he is just expressing his own legitimate view. Granted it may not ingratiate him with the average forumite but the paradigm is shifting and the average forumite in two years time may be more inclined to agree with Disco Dex.

Again one might not like it but it seems inevitable to me.

[snorky]

I think DD is being deliberatly antagonistc. I hate it when people make antagonistic posts

[Alan Dale]

I have the opposite opinion about antognistic posts. I hate it when blogs descend into mutual back patting and chuminess rather than talking about issues. A bit of harmless trolling often helps to generate decent debate.

I think that unless you have a more specific criticism of DD then you are being rude. To dismiss his post as antogonistic might make you feel better but I think that regardless of any perceived tone, he has raised some very valid points.

[Louisa]

Alan Dale I have to agree on this one, I think he has at least raised some important issues here which affect a large number of people in the ED postcode. Sometimes the debate is enhanced if all the issues are aired openly rather being brushed under the carpet. A rubbish analogy I know, but the lack of debate and confrontation of the issues in the local council elections allowed right-wing extremists to become the second largest party on Barking & Dagenham council.