Is criminalising membership in the banned group Islam4UK really necessary...

[mockney piers]

Mathew, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Of course our society hasn't total freedom, it should also have civic responsibilty alongside the great freedoms that we do have.

We have a huge list of people, organisations and events that have defined the hard won freedoms we do have to the point where we are free men in free country.

It's taken as read governments have extraordinary powers for special circumstances such as war or civil emergency. This government has enshrined many of those special powers in statute for everyday use and these have been abused, just look at the journalists who have taken it to he courts and exposed that abuse.

Groups 'taking the piss' doesn't sound like a crime to me, it sounds like an expression of that freedom they enjoy, and if they're too stupid to spot the irony then that just means we get to laugh at them.

I find in your words the casual apathetic acceptance I've heard in many a Francoist Ive talked to in Spain. Freedoms must alwas be upheld against the slightest infractions lest we walk down a very slippery slope. Freedoms are always easier to lose thanto gain and even those who claim they will roll back legislation are slow or reluctant to do ao, look at dear Obama for starters.

So I'm happy for idiots to protest for Sharia law here, and to demand beheadings for insults to Islam, partly because it's obviously never ging to happen here, partly because it allows their target audience to be aware of their stupidity, but mainly because it shouldn't be a crime to do so. This ian shouting fire in a theatre, it's shouting loudly 'your mom' annoying, and if it winds enough people up potentially trouble (for which there are laws in place), but not a crime just because it's annoying or potentially upsetting.

As I said there will now be a greater groundswell of sympathy for them among Muslims in this country, and there will be quote justifiable accusations of hypocrisy.

But of course they are not the target electorate are they, the labour vote is largely safe there, it's, well, it's you mate!!

[jimmy two times]

Stick them on Question Time with an audience of soldiers and ex soldiers.

[*Bob*]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> Stick them on Question Time with an audience of

> soldiers and ex soldiers.

In the light of QT's 'successful' handling of Nick Griffin?

I think not.

[Huguenot]

I'm a great fan of soldiers, but I wouldn't ask them to write the constitution.

[mockney piers]

Well said santerme. Magpie, yea it is distasteful and it does stock in the craw that someone draws benefits from a government they wan to overthrow paid by a people they consider infidels.

But they are citizens and are entitled to it. The moment we start taking away rights just because we don't like people (the twisted definition of social contract that Tony Blair described) we become something else, something worse.

This isn't fluffy political correctness it's the acknowledgemet that freedom is a hard but necessary thing to maintain.

So we put up with the idiots like choudray as long as what they sy doesn't cross the line of criminality (that's for a court, not a politician to decide) and students will wander in and get dissilussioned and leave as many have before. Students like extreme radical ideas and like to think they have the answers and old people/the powers that be don't get it. This isn't exclusive to radical Islam let's face it.

The best thing to do is starve them of the oxygen of publicity, the worst possible thing we could have done is exactly this.

[jimmy two times]

Can traitors still be exectuted?

[Santerme]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> Stick them on Question Time with an audience of

> soldiers and ex soldiers.

The consensus on the forum run for serving and ex soldiers is let them protest and treat them with the contempt they so richly deserve...

You don't fight for the right of one section of society to vocalise and not another...

That's not an army I would have been proud to serve in.

I do not doubt this chap will cook his own goose in the fullness of time.

[Santerme]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> Can traitors still be exectuted?

No

[jimmy two times]

Pity.

[huncamunca]

I'm loving this thread

This lot are about as politically significant as the chuckle brothers, except the Chuckles make me laugh more.

Chaudry has pulled off a huge victory here, because of our knee jerk response and media fuelled outrage - have we really become this sad, that a handful of media savvy islamo fascists are able to manipulate our emotions and score such a huge PR scam so easily ?

get a grip people.

ROFL, LOL etc

[SeanMacGabhann]

Read the facebook comments on the petition - short answer is worse than us becoming this "sad" - only conclusion is we are demented. Think of Jimmy's comments on this thread and multiply by a 100 in ferocity and bile

[Santerme]

I see no reason not to have an emotional response to these people.

I have an emotional response to them.

However, it is tempered by the fact they have the same rights I enjoy.

Would I be pissed off if they marched through Wotton Bassett, absolutely.

Would the Saudi's be pissed off if I counter marched at Mecca, well we will never know will we?

[huncamunca]

And the winner of this competition is....

*drum roll*

the BNP

lets give a big hand to all involved for this fantastic achievement.

[mockney piers]

Oh I don't know Santerme.

If Saudi Arabia stops toeing the line and threatening our access to all that lovely oil we can always invade it, install a puppet government and grant ourselves that right.

[reggie]

I think having a march to mourn all the dead would be a good thing.

Depends how and where you do it though.

Middle Class Mayhem

[Keef]

Couldn't be bothered reading this whole thread to be honest, because the 3rd post

I have to say this announcement made me feel very uneasy for two reasons.

One, we're a free society (well we used to be)

Two, it's suppressing debate and dialogue. It forces the discontented even further underground making them harder to keep an eye on, and to many moderates or undecided it probably helps legitimise extremism to a certain extent.

Just because we (there i go with the royal again) don't like someone doesn't mean we can ban them.

Basically sums it up for me. The bloke in charge of this group seems a total tool, and the planned march was very poor form. BUT, there should be a right to protest, and using these terrorism laws for pretty much anything they don't like, is giving this government (and any that follow) scary power.

[Santerme]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> Oh I don't know Santerme.

> If Saudi Arabia stops toeing the line and

> threatening our access to all that lovely oil we

> can always invade it, install a puppet government

> and grant ourselves that right.

I think the puppet govt in Afghanistan and the control of the eventual pipeline to Pakistan from the Caspian Basin will do just as nicely!!:))

[Atila Reincarnate]

Not a good idea in my view no matter whether you agree with their views or are agin them. It will simply drive the movement underground and give credence to their belief that they are victimised by Western/Christian governments & authorities

[david_carnell]

Islam4UK have a habit of announcing impressively antagonistic events which don't come off. I suspect they sort of mean them to come off,but their organisational skills are very poor. They recently announced a major conference of the role of Islam (or some such) and put stickers up all over London, but the event didn't happen because they couldn't attract suitable speakers,and hadn't thought of arranging that first. They in turn are followers of Bakri Mohammed, who once famously arranged a stunt in which verses of the Koran were put in envelopes, tied to balloons, and released in Trafalgar Square. The trouble was, at no-one point in all the putting-of-verses-into-envelopes-and-tying-them-to-balloons procedure did anyone in his group take note of the fact the resultant unit was heavier than air, so when they hundreds of balloons were released they just stayed on the ground.

Choudary, on the other hand, is full of hot wind.

[jimmy two times]

Re-open the internment camps on the Isle of Man and chuck em all in there. They're enemies of the state.

[brum]

JTT, are you Dick Cheney here on vacation?

[SeanMacGabhann]

jimmy

to listen to the number of people on here complaining about councils and politicians i would say it's more than this lot are an enemy of the state

careful what you wish for

[jimmy two times]

I'd build a couple of Gulags and stick them in there.

[SeanMacGabhann]

ok now I'm convinced you have a random sentence generator

[Ladymuck]

This article caught my eye:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/jan/12/islam4uk-ban-johnson