Southwark Plans for Camberwell Old & New Cemeteries.

[ruffers]

So they'll bury more people in part of the cemetery, and when that's full they'll bury other people in another part of the cemetery.

It being a cemetery and all that.

[oddlycurious]

Oh Blanche!

And at least Lewis doesn?t hide behind a username, and is prepared to defend what he believes publicly.

Can you explain why he decided to set up a charming new Twitter account to hijack the the nation's grief over the Grenfall tragedy?

@FairBurial If #Grenfell was in @lb_southwark Christians wud get cheap local burial; Muslims & Jews wud get nowt.

Since then he's tweeted the same unpleasant messages via the normal SSW account - do you condone this?

[JoeLeg]

Love it, he's trying to get George Galloway on side. He's quite the paragon of equality!

Lewis loses and now loses the plot. I'm getting the popcorn...

[Penguin68]

Is it possible now to get back to reality (a bit). It strikes me that there are 3 issues that actually need to be addressed in the work in the cemeteries -

(1) Is there a proper plan to address ponding and run-off in times (I know, doesn't seem likely at the moment) of heavy and continuous rain? I had hoped for the installation of a field drainage system, but with the site being sealed off it is difficult to know what is being done. There would be issues of course of disturbing burials, but less so if the drains can be installed under mounding.

(2) What are the replanting plans for the sites once the clearance and preparation for new burials work is complete - tree and shrub species etc.? What is the underlying ecological philosophy behind this (native species against issues of climate change, ornament or utility etc.)?

(3) What are the plans, if any, for conservation of those memorials which are still fit to be conserved? Many cemeteries place 'old' memorials around the perimeter of the graveyard, is that, or anything, planned here?

As I have always said, there are genuine issues with Southwark's plans that need addressing, just not the ones over which there has been most heat (and least light).

[ruffers]

oddlycurious Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh Blanche!

>

> And at least Lewis doesn?t hide behind a username,

> and is prepared to defend what he believes

> publicly.

>

> Can you explain why he decided to set up a

> charming new Twitter account to hijack the the

> nation's grief over the Grenfall tragedy?

>

>

>

> @FairBurial If #Grenfell was in @lb_southwark

> Christians wud get cheap local burial; Muslims &

> Jews wud get nowt.

>

> Since then he's tweeted the same unpleasant

> messages via the normal SSW account - do you

> condone this?

Wow. Just, wow.

[Sue]

oddlycurious Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh Blanche!

>

> And at least Lewis doesn?t hide behind a username,

> and is prepared to defend what he believes

> publicly.

>

> Can you explain why he decided to set up a

> charming new Twitter account to hijack the the

> nation's grief over the Grenfall tragedy?

>

>

>

> @FairBurial If #Grenfell was in @lb_southwark

> Christians wud get cheap local burial; Muslims &

> Jews wud get nowt.

>

> Since then he's tweeted the same unpleasant

> messages via the normal SSW account - do you

> condone this?

OMG

[johnie]

oddlycurious Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh Blanche!

>

> And at least Lewis doesn?t hide behind a username,

> and is prepared to defend what he believes

> publicly.

>

> Can you explain why he decided to set up a

> charming new Twitter account to hijack the the

> nation's grief over the Grenfall tragedy?

>

>

>

> @FairBurial If #Grenfell was in @lb_southwark

> Christians wud get cheap local burial; Muslims &

> Jews wud get nowt.

>

FFS, what a scumbag

[Blanche Cameron]

It is appalling, you're right ? it is a horrific tragedy that highlights again how Councils discriminate and exclude and victimise people and pretend to be democratic while in reality often doing the opposite.

Southwark claims to provide burial for all, especially those for whom burial is the only option. But its 30,000 Muslim residents experience around 270 deaths a year. Southwark provides ten 'Muslim area' burial plots.

If you want to get angry, get angry at Councils that exclude and discriminate and divide people for phoney reasons.

We are fighting to save our beautiful cemeteries, their woods and nature and graves. Southwark's religious discrimination is just another reason why Southwark are unfit to run a burial service.

Read the report on April burial stakeholder meeting here when Southwark's own Multi Faith Forum Chair and others presented Cllr Wingfield with the facts:

http://savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/council-ignores-discrimination/4593814916

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods campaign

07731 304 966 / [email protected] / www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk

[oddlycurious]

Blanche, you don't want ANYONE buried ANYWHERE in Southwark, let alone near you. If the council announced plans for 200 orthodox muslim and 200 orthodox jewish plots near your house they would need to get you down off the ceiling.

You and Lewis have gone so far down the rabbit hole any decency or compassion is null and void as long as you've got somewhere to walk on a Sunday morning.

The pair of you deserve each other.

[taper]

The only solution surely is to create new cemetery space on the "Honor Oak Nature Corridor" and the Rec. Will SSW support that as a way through this?

[Blanche Cameron]

Oddlycurious, whatever you think of me or Lewis personally, you haven't answered the question, is it OK for Councils to discriminate against residents on grounds of faith? No it isn't.

We spend time highlighting this because Southwark uses the pretence of 'burial for all' to dig up the cemeteries.

To genuinely provide burial for all - especially those for whom burial is the only option - Southwark would have to provide it out of the borough. They promised to investigate this in 2012 and never have.

These are Southwark's phoney claims not ours.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods campaign

07731 304 966 / [email protected] / www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk

[oddlycurious]

You haven't answered half the questions put to you directly on here.

But, just for the record - and please listen this time because cleverer people than either of us have explained this to you - the council is not discriminatory in its burial policy. So, no, it wouldn't be OK but as they're not doing it it's irrelevant.

Can you now explain why the pair of you conspired to start a new Twitter account to launch your Grenfall attack when you're making such a big thing of transparency?

[taper]

"To genuinely provide burial for all - especially those for whom burial is the only option - Southwark would have to provide it out of the borough. They promised to investigate this in 2012 and never have. "

Genuine question: if Southwark used new space for the purposes of burial (eg "HO Nature Corridor") then orthodox religious groups could have dedicated burial provision couldn't they?

[oddlycurious]

taper - exactly. The only way to provide the blanket equality that SSW is desperate for would be the repurposing of green space on a massive scale. She doesn't want equality - burial for all - they want burial for no-one, so pretending to care less about it is dubious at best.

[JoeLeg]

Blanche Cameron Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oddlycurious, whatever you think of me or Lewis

> personally, you haven't answered the question, is

> it OK for Councils to discriminate against

> residents on grounds of faith? No it isn't.

The question doesn't need answering. You are attempting to construct a straw man argument designed specifically to put oddlycurious in the wrong. It is intellectually juvenile and worthy only of the playground. Of course - as has been reputedly and pointlessly said to you - no one thinks that. But it isn't the whole of the point, as you know but avoid.

>

> We spend time highlighting this because Southwark

> uses the pretence of 'burial for all' to dig up

> the cemeteries.

>

> To genuinely provide burial for all - especially

> those for whom burial is the only option -

> Southwark would have to provide it out of the

> borough. They promised to investigate this in 2012

> and never have.

>

And thus we come to what you really want - no burial whatsoever within Southwark. There is no avenue too nasty for you to go down. Let me be quite clear - I do not believe for one moment that you're one iotas about religious discrimination. To you it is merely a possible path to getting what you want. If there was another way open to you then you would take it.

I do not believe that you care about other peoples religion. I say you are a hypocrite and a liar.

> These are Southwark's phoney claims not ours.

There are so many phoney claims of your own that I wouldn't even know where to start.

And your willingness to exploit the tragedy at Grenfell and think it somehow equal to your own little pet ego project is disgusting. There is no equivalence between them.

ETA - you tagged George Galloway and Joey Barton in on your little crusade about Grenfell? Seriously? You really will lie down with anyone, won't you? I feel my point is proved.

[oddlycurious]

Joeleg -

Blanche uses an iphone. Lewis uses an Android phone (it's on the bottom of your tweets). The tweeting the indefensible to the unspeakable is 100 per cent Lewis. When you're a mass protest organisation with two active members, you have to stick together.

[dbboy]

Joking about 100 people burning to death in West London and inciting religious hatred.

You're the scum of the earth.

Please don't tell Blanche and her side kick they deserve each other, that's enough to turn everyone's stomach in east dulwich and the surrounding area.

[bsand]

If you had ever seen Lewis live then utterly outrageous is his norm. And Edinburgh is coming up , and he needs material for his 'show'. He is mercillessly trolling you now - and you are all falling for it. What is it you do with trolls - DON'T FEED EM. Rant over.

[Blanche Cameron]

I am genuinely shocked that many regular posters on here don't object to the religious discrimination of Southwark's burial service.

Southwark Council has repeatedly dismissed residents' views - residents who want to keep the beautiful woods not cut them down, want to keep the graves and memorials, not destroy them, don't want war graves mounded over, don't want to be buried over the dead, and want to be genuinely consulted, not have the overwhelming response against Southwark's burial developments brushed aside.

The Council must stop pretending that all this destruction will provide burial for all residents who seek it, 'especially those for whom burial is the only option'. It won't - they know it and faith leaders have told them to their face.

It's Southwark Council's duty to investigate the religious discrimination. They must do a Borough Burial Needs Assessment, as recommended by Harriet Harman in February 2007. The fact Sothwark has not done this shows again an unwillingness to admit their burial service does not provide for all.

We will go on campaigning for the cemeteries to be declared nature reserves,and pointing out along the way the inequality in Southwark's treatment of residents of different religions.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods campaign

07731 304 966 / [email protected] / www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk

[Penguin68]

I am genuinely shocked that many regular posters on here don't object to the religious discrimination of Southwark's burial service.

There isn't any. Southwark's cemeteries are open to anyone who wishes to use them, whilst there are plots available. Anyone!

Peruse this:- http://www.2.southwark.gov.uk/info/200032/deaths_funerals_and_cremations/162/arranging_a_burial and this http://www.2.southwark.gov.uk/info/200032/deaths_funerals_and_cremations/132/burials_and_cremations and please show me where there are any classes of people mentioned who are excluded from the municipal cemeteries (there is a reference to their Muslim Burial site not being subject to the Council's burial strategy from reclaimed land - but this does not exclude burial of people of Muslim origin elsewhere in the cemeteries)

[Blanche Cameron]

Yes Penguin68 - Southwark's statement perfectly illustrates its religious discrimination. The cemeteries are not a visitor centre, this is a local authority burial service.

Southwark claims to provide burial for all who seek it, 'especially those for whom burial is the only option'.

But allocates just 10 Muslim burial plots a year for 30,000 Muslim residents experiencing around 270 deaths a year 'for whom burial is the only option'.

Southwark has clearly decided to brazen it out - but the facts speak for themselves and we will continue to point it out.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods campaign

07731 304 966 / [email protected] / www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk

[dbboy]

Oh here we we go again, Last week you cited WW1 graves, this week it's returned to supposed discriminatory burial. This discussion continues to go around in circles. If it's not one route it's the other you purport to support. Your arguments are stale and have no basis. I could even go as far to say you're fake.

The council have again granted permission to proceed with their works, how many people supported you last week at the council, was the place packed to the rafters? You don't even seem to be able to interpret a map. Very sad.

[JoeLeg]

Leave it dbboy. Her and Lewis have been shown up for the charlatans they are. Ignore the trolls now, they're desperate for attention, but they had broadsheets, tabloids and even Private Eye, as well as UKIP supporting them, and they still couldn't put together a coherent case.

Lewis thinks he's funny, Blanche thinks she's important, and no one else seems to be with them.

[peckman]

blanche.. Im giving you the benefit of the doubt and I think you care about the environment but slightly misguided. pls concentrate you efforts on the beautiful space we have that isn't marked as cemetery . Lewis. Ive encountered you and im sorry you can do one,,

[oddlycurious]

Blanche,

You suffer from the same problem as Theresa May; you can't deal with a difference of opinion. Faced with hard facts you copy and paste the same line every time. If Southwark Council were in any way discriminating against Muslim or Jewish people they would be all over it like a rash; neither demographic is backwards in coming forwards to highlight injustice. Just because you keep repeating the same tosh over and over and over again will not make it true.

It's been said before but your money where your mouth is - if you truly believe Southwark Council are engaged in illegal activity, get an injunction. If you are so utterly convinced you're right prove it.

You've not posted a group shot of FOCC on your website for nearly 12 months - you're keen to use pictures to prove your point about the cemetery but you can't illustrate your local support? How many FOCC were at the planning meeting the other night?