Southwark Plans for Camberwell Old & New Cemeteries.

[Penguin68]

.

[oddlycurious]

Many thanks for clarifying your position, Blanche

dbboy - the two statements are not a contradiction. FOCC are against burial on land near their homes, but happy for Southwark Council to provide burial for residents as long as it doesn't inconvenience them.

Blanche - how far away from your home would be acceptable for burial provision? You've posted maps quite often so if you could just draw a circle around the area of your home you don't want to see burials provided in, that would be fantastic.

Some people might call you the worst kind of NIMBY but that would be unfair.

[Penguin68]

FOCC are against burial on land near their homes, but happy for Southwark Council to provide burial for residents as long as it doesn't inconvenience them.

I think that might be a little unfair - they don't so much want no burial close to them per se - but they don't want to have to travel any distance to access a nice park for picnicking - so they want to turn the cemeteries into parks so they have these close to where they live, rather than having to go, well to Peckham Rye - no more than half a mile, to get these facilities. Playing Lewis's game of 'who benefits?' one might almost suspect that having parks on their back door might improve their property values, rather than having cemeteries. Of course they have actually argued in the past for out of area burials (out of Southwark anyway) - whatever Blanche now claims - - but that's just part of their grasping at straws strategy.

[dbboy]

If I had the inclination to search through all of Blanche's posts on here (but I've better things to do), I'm sure I'd find the place she said they wanted no more burials in either cemetery.

[oddlycurious]

dbboy - that's correct. They don't want either cemetery to be used. Nor do they want any local green space to be used for this purpose. However, if Southwark Council wants to move all it's burial provision out of their eyeline, that would be OK.

[Blanche Cameron]

OddlyCurious

How far are you asking residents who cannot be buried according to Christian burial traditions to travel? Almost half of all residents who require burial [*added 'who require burial] cannot use Southwark?s cemeteries. This is discriminatory and Southwark knows this.

Local people don?t want trees cut down, graves dug up, memorials destroyed, and burial plots in and amongst the graves of others just to keep burial for only some residents in the borough. That is why we are calling on new burial to stop and the cemeteries to be made nature reserves.

We have never changed our position on this - for more information see the website.

http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/

Photo attached is of One Tree Hill.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

[Penguin68]

Almost half of all residents cannot use Southwark?s cemeteries. This is simply wrong. Many people of Abrahamic faith background are not so orthodox, or even observant, that they feel a need to follow strict burial customs. There will be some who will feel such a need, of course, but by no means all.

From the census the number of Southwark residents identifying as Moslem is 8.5% and Jewish 0.3% - so of the groups who do have separate cemeteries in parts of London fewer than 9% identify as such in Southwark - and some at least will not be so orthodox as to turn down burial in Southwark's cemeteries. You may have noticed that 55.2% identify as Christian and assumed that the remainder are therefore excluded from the cemeteries by reason of religion. This is rubbish and typical of the post truths we have come to expect. Read the actual figures here:- http://www.2.southwark.gov.uk/info/200568/public_sector_equality_duty/3859/religion_and_belief

[Blanche Cameron]

Well spotted Penguin68 and changed. What I should have written was

Almost half of all residents who require burial [*added 'who require burial] cannot use Southwark?s cemeteries.

Tonight is the Planning Committee Meeting

Meet us outside Southwark Council

6.30pm Thursday 15th June

160 Tooley Street London SE1 2QH

http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/object-to-area-b-development/4593742804

Tell Southwark Council that 1,000 burial plots on the Honor Oak Nature Corridor land is a destructive waste of inner London open green space.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

[Penguin68]

Almost half of all residents who require burial [*added 'who require burial] cannot use Southwark?s cemeteries.

What on earth do you mean by that, and from whence do you get your figures? Nobody at all in the census required burial, all being alive at the time. Ultra orthodox Jews and Moslems (that is to say probably a reasonable fraction of those listed as self-identifying as Jewish or Moslem) - say perhaps a generous 6% of Southark's current population, would eschew cremation, as would some fundamentalist Christians. For almost all others listed, the method of disposal is an entirely personal matter - bound up in tradition and personal taste. For all of them burial in Southwark's cemeteries taking into account availability of space, is an option. And that includes Moslems and Jews who are not so orthodox that they require segregation. You should visit your beloved war graves sometime - in those cemeteries dedicated to the war dead. There you will find Jewish and Moslem, as well as Christian, graves side by side, marked by Stars of David and crescents.

[dbboy]

Blanche Cameron Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> OddlyCurious

>

> Local people don?t want trees cut down, graves dug

> up, memorials destroyed, and burial plots in and

> amongst the graves of others just to keep burial

> for only some residents in the borough. That is

> why we are calling on new burial to stop and the

> cemeteries to be made nature reserves.

>

Blanche, can I remind you that you do not speak for everyone, and for those that you purport to, I further suggest you have used mis-information to sell them your version of events, It is clear that mis-information is your way of approaching this. Continually you have been exposed here for this. You go on to say that your aim is to slow down the works. You want to cause chaos at any cost.

I suggest you wait and see what happens tonight, then come back and report how Southwark beat you and how unfair that feels. Really don't waste any more of your time, because it will be formally approved following the councils own recommendation to approve it.

[oddlycurious]

Deleted this post as I might as well shout in to a wind tunnel.

[dbboy]

Blanche, suggest you explain to Lewis how democracy works and not to shout at the Planning Officers and only speak when he is spoken to, otherwise he'll be ejected. I'd hate to see in tomorrows press, Comic terminated by Council!!!

[oddlycurious]

Blanche - how did it go last night? How many FOCC members / friends of SSW went with you and Lewis to the meeting? Presumably with the thousands of people supporting you locally they only had room for a couple of dozen of you? Did you take a photo outside the council offices of your supporters?

[oddlycurious]

Are you still using the 10,000 names you've collected over the past two years as the indication of huge local opposition btw? You could at a stretch call it 'huge opposition' but I'll wager the majority of those who have signed are not local (I'll take 'living in London' as local to give you a fair chance)

[oddlycurious]

Oh Lewis! Are you still trying to flog the line that anyone who disagrees with you is part of a shadowy cabal of undertakers and council officials?

(If he's going to screengrab the forum and put it on Twitter it's entirely reasonable to respond on this forum)

[rendelharris]

So what did happen at last night's meeting, anyone know?

[JoeLeg]

Like Southwark Council care enough about SSW to bother...Lewis seems to have a warped view of how the internet works.

I'm going to guess (could be wrong) that it wasn't a resounding victory to SSW, else Lewis/Blanche would have mentioned it. Or maybe they won and they're still drunk.

[snowy]

[dbboy]

https://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=12400&pid=77052#pid77052

[dbboy]

Glad to see you're still reading this Lewis, looks like your feathers have been well and truly ruffled. Job done.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCYAX6SWsAA4IJe.jpg:large

[Blanche Cameron]

Last night's planning meeting went exactly as we expected.

The Councillors ignored the results of their own 2016 consultation where 86% of respondents said they didn't want any burial on the site.

They ignored nearly 500 statutory objections.

They received just one single written comment in support.

No-one spoke last night to defend the project - not a ward Councillor nor any resident.

They disregarded their own ecologist's recommendations for meadow burial and representations by both Cemetery groups - the​ Camberwell Cemeteries Working Group and ourselves - against the application.

Southwark will destroy a beautiful meadow for just a few years of burial plots. And when they have used up that area, they will go after other areas of the Cemetery, either to dig up the dead or use the sports fields or the allotments.

Our report is here: http://savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/southwark-burial-undemocratic/4593911998

The photo is of the meadow that will be lost as a result of last night?s decision.

And at least Lewis doesn?t hide behind a username, and is prepared to defend what he believes publicly.

Why not join us on 25th June 2pm at Camberwell New Cemetery gates to protest Southwark's lack of consultation of families over plans to dig up thousands of graves?

http://savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/families-protest-grave-robbery/4593842405

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries is fighting to stop the destruction of the woods and graves of Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.

We are for maintaining recreational activities already taking place on cemetery grounds, such as the Recreation Ground and the Allotments.

We are for preserving the cemeteries as Memorial Park Nature Reserves, like Nunhead or Highgate Cemeteries.

[JoeLeg]

All that in your favour and yet you still lost?

I'm flabbergasted!

[Sue]

So is that the end, then?

[nxjen]

I hope so, then I can go back to being a council official (Note to ssw: joke)

[JoeLeg]

"And at least Lewis doesn?t hide behind a username, and is prepared to defend what he believes publicly."

What Lewis believes is pretty contemptible. He believes in intimidating, threatening, lying and harassing. The idea that because he uses his real name he is somehow operating on a higher plane of morality would be viable if he didn't behave like a playground bully. I do not agree with the idea that if you use your real name it allows you to engage in such behaviour.

Ad hominem attacks and strawman arguments are his preferred techniques. Blanche, you seem more in favour of passive-agressive manipulation of others beliefs.

Both of you are laughable.