Southwark Plans for Camberwell Old & New Cemeteries.

[precious star]

Keep up the good work blanche. You have a lot of support from many people. Its great that we can also use this thread to highlight the good work you are doing so that others are aware of what is happening.

[edhistory]

> You have a lot of support from many people.

I thought this number was a secret. Do you have inside information?

And just to clarify your post, what is this "good work" you support?

[rendelharris]

edhistory Wrote:

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> > You have a lot of support from many people.

Touch of the Trump, no? "I have a lot of support. A lot. From many people. Many, many people."

[precious star]

Support from many of us from the green party and ordinary people who care about our green spaces and wild life . Blanche has done a good job of making more people on this forum aware of these issues.

[edhistory]

Which of Ms Cameron's misrepresentations is your favourite?

[JoeLeg]

precious star Wrote:

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> Support from many of us from the green party and

> ordinary people who care about our green spaces

> and wild life . Blanche has done a good job of

> making more people on this forum aware of these

> issues.

Well, the Green Party can't really disagree with SSW on this, though it's a shame because it means they align themselves with a pressure group that is happy to accept support from racists.

Many ordinary people care about local spaces and wildlife, but they have different ideas about how to manage it. You seem to agree with Blanche that none of those ideas are worth anything, and that we should all shut up.

I would say those that support Blanche and Lewis are unable to think for themselves.

Still waiting for those photos from you by the way...

[Sally Eva]

The Greens should be quite conflicted because burial is eco-friendly (compoting people really) and the alternative, cremation or burning them at very high temperatures, is very destructive.

Of course burial becomes more eco-friendly the more bodies are buried -- so as close as possible together, piled on top of one another.

I get the impression that burying bodies on top of one another is the root of SSW objections to the council's plans and yet it is historically normal in the UK. Look at the first scene of Hamlet with the gravedigger to see the historic attitude to dead bodies. "The dust of Caesar now stopping a bung hole"

[rendelharris]

Sally Eva Wrote:

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Look at the first scene of Hamlet with

> the gravedigger to see the historic attitude to

> dead bodies. "The dust of Caesar now stopping a

> bung hole"

Alexander! (Though Caesar is mentioned later) ;-)

[Penguin68]

I get the impression that burying bodies on top of one another is the root of SSW objections to the council's plans

No. I'm afraid its simply yet another dog whistle in their root objection which is the continuance of any burials at all in these cemeteries, or indeed any in Southwark, and the conversion of all Southwark cemeteries, but particularly these ones, into parks and recreation areas so that they can picnic. Family plots, for instance, have always had burials close to/ on top of each other. They also wish no tree clearance, for any reasons, so also the wilding of these areas such that (look at the bits in Camberwell Old Cemetery) they become impenetrable (and hence no good for recreation) - but don't expect consistency or logic in all this. This started as an objection to proposed tree cutting and clearance in bits of the cemeteries (very small areas, proportionally) which had been woefully neglected - but spun very quickly out of control.

[oddlycurious]

I don't think it's helpful to criticise individuals and their erratic behaviour on here. EDF have a reporting mechanism, and if anyone is bullying or telling lies, they get banned. We're all still here so make of that what you will.

SSW/FOCC are a bit like Corbyn led Labour; no-one is really against the general principles - it's how they've been managed and promoted that's the issue.

[Blanche Cameron]

UNAPPROVED TREE CUTTING IN NEW AREA

The Council has told us it is to start felling remaining woods in Camberwell Old Cemetery, acting without permission.

Today we warned the Church of England that Southwark Council intends to cut down hundreds more trees in Areas J, K and L of Camberwell Old Cemetery without needed permission. See photo.

FOCC has also written to remind Southwark Council that tree felling on consecrated ground requires Church of England permission.

Southwark says this is ?to progress projects? ? ?new? burial plots over thousands of people?s graves. The Council is calling the tree felling ?woodland management? as if this exempts the Council from applying for Church permission.

These woods are on consecrated ground. Southwark must apply for Church permission to cut down any tree over 3 inches or 75mm diameter. There are hundreds of these trees ?in the way? on the ten acres.

Full Statement http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/focc-warns-church-tree-felling/4593805274

MEETING

FOCC/SSW will be having a planning meeting at The Herne Tavern, tonight at 7:30PM. All are welcome.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries was founded as Save Southwark Woods in January 2015 to stop the destruction of the woods and graves of Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.

We are for maintaining recreational activities already taking place on cemetery grounds, such as the Recreation Ground and the Allotments.

We are for preserving the cemeteries as Memorial Park Nature Reserves, like Nunhead or Highgate Cemeteries.

[oddlycurious]

Blanche, why does Lewis want to know people's personal details on Twitter? To What end? and before you say you can't speak on his behalf (not that you'll say anything) he does post directly from the @SSW account too, yes?

[oddlycurious]

Will Save Southwark Woods / Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries be backing their friends in UKIP in the general election?

[Blanche Cameron]

"Campaigners clash with council over soldiers' graves"

Friday, 14th April 2017 in the South London Press. Councillor Wingfield is quoted as saying that "We will not bury on top of war graves". The Council had neglected to include in their planning application for Area Z, Camberwell Old Cemetery, the graves of 42 soldiers. Many of their graves would have been buried over (and still may be buried over).

We are currently investigating whether any CGWC soldiers are buried in the Area F Woodvale development area of Camberwell Old Cemetery and if any have since been buried over.

Disrespect for the nation's soldiers, and all of the buried, is just one reason why Southwark Council is unfit to run a burial programme.

MEETING TONIGHT

FOCC/SSW will be having a planning meeting at The Herne Tavern, tonight at 7:30PM. All are welcome.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries was founded as Save Southwark Woods in January 2015 to stop the destruction of the woods and graves of Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.

We are for maintaining recreational activities already taking place on cemetery grounds, such as the Recreation Ground and the Allotments.

We are for preserving the cemeteries as Memorial Park Nature Reserves, like Nunhead or Highgate Cemeteries.

[dbboy]

"Disrespect for the nation's soldiers, and all of the buried, is just one reason why Southwark Council is unfit to run a burial programme."

NO - The only people unfit to be a protest group are ssw/Focc

[dbboy]

and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rO1n8-SuNM

the music is in the message or is that the message is in the music, whatever.

[JoeLeg]

So Blanche, once again CWGC says you're talking rubbish.

And that's according to the article you linked to.

Have you actually read your own words? These are graves that cannot be indentified. You have no way of knowing who they were or what they did in the war. And they are not buried in Commonwealth Grave sites so stop trying to conflate it with that argument; that really does dishonour the memory of soldiers who died on the battlefield.

[edhistory]

Garrick Alder, "journalist", has been suckered.

[dbboy]

It is not woods nor has it ever been officially recognised as being woods.

What ssw/focc purport to being woods are in fact land neglected by Southwark Council within the cemeteries that became overgrown scrub and that the cemeteries now want to reclaim so the land can be used for its intended purpose, burials.

Simple really unless of course you are ssw/focc, but then I doubt they can see the woods from the trees.

On past history its already clear ssw/focc talk garbage, CWGC just confirm that.

[Penguin68]

Today we warned the Church of England that Southwark Council intends to cut down hundreds more trees in Areas J, K and L of Camberwell Old Cemetery without needed permission.

Sorry if I go back over (very) old ground.

(1) The C of E has an interest only in the consecrated areas of municipal cemeteries. I do not believe there are consecrated parts in J K and L - even if there are, only parts of those areas will be consecrated (as only parts were in Areas Z and D where a faculty has been granted).

(2) That interest is restricted to the the disturbance of burials (bodies), disturbances to grave furniture (monuments) and the creation of any paths or roadways in the consecrated area (as that would restrict the land that can be used for burials).

(3) Whilst the Diocese has an interest in trees within parish church (i.e. their own) lands and must give permission for trees above certain dimensions to be cut on this land, this interest does not extend to consecrated land in municipal cemeteries. ssw has in the past made this confusion and has (wrongly) cited the document relating to parish land as if it referred to municipal cemetery lands.

Southwark Borough Council is the authority to give permission to gardening and arboriculture plans within its own municipal parks and cemeteries. Not the Diocese of Southwark.

If ssw really has been warning the Diocese about matters outwith its (the Diocese) remit or scope - more fool them.

[kiera]

dbboy Wrote:

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> It is not woods nor has it ever been officially recognised as being woods.

Incorrect

Southwark council's Tree Management Strategy makes it quite clear that it is officially designated as woodland:-

Page 7 footnote

> "(2) Southwark has 74 hectares of designated woodland including Dulwich Upper Wood, Sydenham Hill Woods, Russia Dock Woodland, One Tree Hill and parts of Peckham Rye, Nunhead Cemetery and Camberwell Cemetery.".

[dbboy]

Well more fool Southwark Council

[edhistory]

The Tree Management Strategy (2013) does not designate either Camberwell Old Cemetery or Camberwell New Cemetery as "woodland".

The writer of the footnote(2) to paragraph 3.1, C.Cook, seems to be confused.

There may be another document that designates either or both of the cemeteries as "woodlsnd".

[Penguin68]

and parts of Peckham Rye, Nunhead Cemetery and Camberwell Cemetery - This is an odd note - there is no 'Camberwell Cemetery' - you would refer either to the Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries (or specifically to just one of them) - or possibly just to 'the Camberwell Cemeteries'. Was Camberwell actually meant? I think that Nunhead may not be the only closed cemetery in Southwark. If there is another one it may have been that which was meant.

[Blanche Cameron]

Destruction of the remaining wild areas of Camberwell Old Cemetery could begin this week, without necessary permision.

Here is the link to the letters we have written the Church of England and Southwark Council regarding tree felling in the Lanes of Camberwell Old Cemetery. These areas were consecrated in 1862 and 1913 and the Church has final say over trees over 75mm in diameter. Southwark has said they will start doing "woodland management" in Areas J, K, and L in the Lanes.

http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/council-tries-dodging-planning/4593805274

For aerial view of Old Cemetery

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries was founded as Save Southwark Woods in January 2015 to stop the destruction of the woods and graves of Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.

We are for maintaining recreational activities already taking place on cemetery grounds, such as the Recreation Ground and the Allotments.

We are for preserving the cemeteries as Memorial Park Nature Reserves, like Nunhead or Highgate Cemeteries.