Southwark Plans for Camberwell Old & New Cemeteries.

[JoeLeg]

Blanche, do you have any proof that he Muslim community feels discriminated against?

Have you actually asked any Muslims? Or do you, as a white middle class individual, feel comfortable assuming you know what the Muslim community thinks?

[oddlycurious]

Blanche, if you're worried about muslims in London generally could you ask your UKIP friends to tone down their rhetoric? They probably won't need as many graves if you did that.

[Penguin68]

Once again I must ask the question - does ssw - as manifested by Blanche and Lewis - want the continued burial of ANY person in Southwark or not? They are on record as saying that they want ALL burials to stop. In which case the 'discrimination' rubbish is a clear red herring and is otherwise irrelevant to their case, and is essentially lying obfuscation.[i should be clear that there are those who support much of their protest who do not form part of their coterie, and I would not wish to tar these people with the same brush. I think they're wrong, but they're wrong in the right way, as it were].

As for ssw's apparent links to the far and racist right - I do hope those who are 'green' and support their wishes will reflect on their bedfellows.

[Burbage]

dbboy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> When are you going to post the FOCC constitution

> and minutes of meetings?

As an unincorporated association, they don't have to publish anything (or even, provided they don't have a surplus, register with HMRC). As directors are personally liable for the actions of the group, there's no need. That need would only arise if, or when, they wanted to receive public money directly.

That said, things can get awkward if they accidentally confuse themselves with another group or claim to speak for other properly-constituted groups with whom confusion may be likely. Which makes their involvement in the Southwark Greenspaces Forum (SGF) a matter of some interest. The SGF emerged out of nearly nowhere (a meeting was held last July to answer the question 'Does Southwark Need a Green Space Forum', which it predictably did) and then swiftly entangled itself with the pre-existing London Green Space Friends Network (LGSFN), a division of the apparently respectable National Federation of Parks and Green Spaces. Presumably FOCC is now part of the LGSFN and possibly speaking for any other Friends group that turned up, didn't notice or failed to object. That may unfairly suspicious of me, but it is impossible to tell as the last time LGSFN published minutes was in 2014 (when the 'Southwark' rep was from the Friends of Dulwich Park)

All this parochial usurpation is entertaining enough (though unlikely to please any real Friends groups that find SGF claiming to represent them), but it does give some cause for concern. Genuine Friends groups, after all, do a real job, and raise real funds from real sponsors for real projects, and it would be a shame if any of that hard work was put at risk. Although Southwark Council (and Lambeth) might be wise to such tactics, having come across them in various guises before, not everyone can tell the difference between a genuine representative body and a bunch of shouty deadbeats. Despite the hard realities that have forced corporations to turn their hand to the rancid depradations of the gig economy, a surprising amount of greenwash money still oozes from the City and, provided it ticks the right boxes, isn't always too careful about where it ends up.

[dbboy]

If they say they are FOCC they are perporting to represent a group with a cause. Whatever that cause may or may not be, surely they must have a constitution that lays out:

Who is responsible for what?

How they acquired these positions, were they voted into them or have they just assumed them. If assumed positions that does not seem to be democratic?

What they aim to achieve?

How they intend to do this?

How they raise funds?

How these funds are maintained?

How the funds are used?

Who is responsible for the funds?

Accounts for the funds and usage?

I would not want to support any group if I did not know were the funds were coming from and how they were being spent? FOCC need to be held to account.

[oddlycurious]

Blanche, I know you were busy posting pictures of trees using unfortunate phrasing during yesterday's atrocities in London but you've forgotten to RT the UKIP support in the London Assembly from the morning; odd you missed it - it's got the hashtag #SaveSouthwarkWoods and everything. Here's the link again in case you missed it

https://twitter.com/UKIP_Assembly/status/844531695328120834

[Blanche Cameron]

STATEMENT

23 March 2107

We are asking Southwark and Lewisham residents to object again to burial plots in the Honor Oak Nature Corridor. Even though it won?t change a thing.

The July 2016 consultation for Area B, the Old Nursery Site behind Honor Oak Park Station, showed overwhelming public rejection of burial plots on this site. 86% of 454 respondents said it should be made a nature reserve or some other social amenity.

Southwark Councillors and officers have already said in cemetery ?stakeholder? meetings they are going to ignore the results and dig up Area B anyway - in violation of the Gunning Principles on Local Authority consultations.

Click here for links:

http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/phoney-burial-consultation/4593754452

ONE TREE HILL SITE(Area D1)

Southwark Council has cut down dozens of trees at Area D1 on One Tree Hill and moved on. We are waiting Council to start on roads over local poor people's graves and up the hill.

UNDERHILL ROAD WOOD, CAMBERWELL OLD CEMETERY (Area Z):

As of Wednesday, the site was quiet. We are awating work to restart. We asked for a site visit but have not gotten a reply from the Council.

OLD NURSERY SITE, CAMBERWELL NEW CEMETERY (Area B)

Southwark Council's planning application has been received by Southwark Council open land next to Honor Oak Park train station and also in the Honor Oak Nature Corridor (HONC).

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries was founded as Save Southwark Woods in January 2015 to stop the destruction of the woods and graves of Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.

We are for maintaining recreational activities already taking place on cemetery grounds, such as the Recreation Ground and the Allotments.

[taper]

Won't somebody think of the elephants?

[oddlycurious]

Should we start asking questions via email or Twitter? Perfectly reasonable questions are constantly ignored - yet they demand action and explanations from everyone else.

[Blanche Cameron]

Email or call us if you have a question. Or if you have a complaint as to how we are working to save the trees, woods and the graves of our local cemeteries.

Lewis is blocked from posting on this forum but can be reached at [email protected] and 07886504221.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries was founded as Save Southwark Woods in January 2015 to stop the destruction of the woods and graves of Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.

We are for maintaining recreational activities already taking place on cemetery grounds, such as the Recreation Ground and the Allotments.

We are for preserving the cemeteries as Memorial Park Nature Reserves, like Nunhead or Highgate Cemeteries.

[edhistory]

What happened to Mr Schaffer's body fluids running down the gutters of Forest Hill Road?

[oddlycurious]

Why why you answer questions on here? For a group that have tried to make a big thing of transparency, you seem to be avoiding speaking on the record

[dbboy]

You say the allotments are part of the cemetery grounds, think you'll find they are next to the cemetery grounds, and not on it, please somebody correct me if I am mistaken.

As for the recreation ground, whilst it unarguably provides a green space for those that use it, Camberwell purchased it with the intent of it always being used for burials.

Your use of a UKIP Assembly Member to pursue your political aims is shameful, particularly in light of what happened at Westminster. Sadiq Khan neatly dismissed the question and referred the AM to the statement prepared for him.

"Email or call us if you have a question. Or if you have a complaint as to how we are working to save the trees, woods and the graves of our local cemeteries."

Are you for real, you don't answer questions on here so why are you going to answer emails or tweets. Probably a way of getting peoples email addresses so you can continue the abuse you have previously been accused of. Don't think so. As you spend enough time reposting your nonsense statements, just answer the questions on here being asked of you.

So for the umpteenth time of asking, when are you going to publish your FOCC constitution and minutes of meetings?

[Blanche Cameron]

Photo attached taken at Camberwell Old Cemetery March 23rd 2017.

[Blanche Cameron]

Photo attached taken in Area Z on Underhill Road, Camberwell Old Cemetery, March 23rd 2017.

Large trees cutdown yesterday without tree cutters first removing the memorials of the poor buried there, including possibly the memorials CWGC WW1 soldiers, who are buried on the site. How they will remove the tree without disturbing the graves, as they promised, we don't know.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries was founded as Save Southwark Woods in January 2015 to stop the destruction of the woods and graves of Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.

We are for maintaining recreational activities already taking place on cemetery grounds, such as the Recreation Ground and the Allotments.

[Penguin68]

How they will remove the tree without disturbing the graves, as...

Precisely - this scrub growth has grown through the graves - thus disturbing them - hence, I would guess, the fact that some work has not commenced until the facility was granted. The whole point about the wilded area was that the burials there were becoming over-grown and grown-through - had you any real care for those already buried there such remedial work would have been welcomed. But of course what you want is your picnic area, not a graveyard at all. There are NO Commonwealth War Graves in the area, as I understand it (these are in a different area entirely, well tended), although there are graves of WW1 soldiers there, not part of the War Graves remit. [i am happy to stand corrected by someone who is sure of the facts - which I'm afraid does not include any ssw mavens.]

[oddlycurious]

Blanche, your dogwhistle campaign to attract the far right to your cause after having the door closed in your face by all other support groups is far more disrespectful of the people who died for our freedom than anything the council could do. As the Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries you should be ashamed.

[nxjen]

The poor were too - er - poor to have memorials

[Blanche Cameron]

Screenshot of Consistory Court ruling regarding CWGC graves. There are at least 48 known war graves in Area Z and probably more. Southwark have told the CWGC they will not bury on top of soldiers's graves but we believe it will be impossible to meet. This is a heritage site and should not be disturbed.

[oddlycurious]

"We believe" "including possibly" - really?

Until you read the diocese decision the Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries didn't even know there were war graves in the area.

[Blanche Cameron]

STATEMENT:

Southwark Council is risking disturbing the graves of London?s poorest people in Camberwell Old Cemetery including possibly the graves of First World War soldiers.

This is something Southwark has promised they would not do. More than 300 First and Second World War soldiers are buried in the Victorian cemetery. Southwark doesn?t know where many of them are.

48 WW1 soldiers are known to lie in Area Z. But how can Southwark be sure that other unknown soldiers do not also lie under the trees in Area Z?

The Council has promised the Commonwealth War Graves Commission that no soldier?s grave would be buried over, let alone disturbed.

Read more: http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/trees-chopped-above-dead-poor/4593756900

The disrespect of the graves of soldiers and the poor are another reason why this cemetery project must be halted.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

[edhistory]

Thank you for the photographic updates that show the good progress being made.

[oddlycurious]

Southwark Council is risking disturbing the graves of London?s poorest people in Camberwell Old Cemetery including possibly the graves of First World War soldiers.

So the graves aren't being disturbed and the ones that aren't being disturbed possibly don't include WWI graves?

[Penguin68]

There is nothing magical about being a WW1 soldier - about 25% of the UK male population served in WW1 - which means about 25% of those aged between about 16 and 40 during the years 1914-1918 and buried in Camberwell Old Cemetery will be WW1 soldiers.

Many fewer will have died as a direct consequence of WW1 - most of these were buried close to the battlefields, where (and if) their bodies were found. Only those repatriated to UK hospitals as wounded who then died would have been buried in local cemeteries - many in 'ordinary' graves.

The War Graves Commission was only founded in 1917 - before that UK burials would have been 'private'. So it is entirely possible that there are graves of WW1 soldiers (indeed certain) and also graves of those killed in the war and buried privately before 1917.

They will not be 'Commonwealth War Graves' if buried before 1917. And indeed those buried under that 'flag' are buried together in a special area untouched by any works. My maternal grandfather was a WW1 soldier (from the beginning) - who died in 1960 (about) - were he to be buried here (he was actually cremated) his grave would be too 'young' to be disturbed. I doubt if there is anyone now living who would actually remember, except by reputation, a relative buried before 1917.

And, as I have said, there is nothing magical about being a WW1 soldier.

For those buried in unmarked graves - other than the paper records kept - their presence, absence or disturbance would have to be purely hypothetical. If you have people to remember, then there are Cenotaphs, inscriptions and services to give a focus to those memories. As if ssw actually cared!

[Blanche Cameron]

Photo taken yesterday in Area Z, Underhill Road Wood, Camberwell Old Cemetery.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries was founded as Save Southwark Woods in January 2015 to stop the destruction of the woods and graves of Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.

We are for maintaining recreational activities already taking place on cemetery grounds, such as the Recreation Ground and the Allotments.