Southwark Plans for Camberwell Old & New Cemeteries.

[dbboy]

It would be good if you actually noted, understood and respected what the ruling says rather than creating mis-understanding.

It is only as a result of the ruling that you have become interested in the WW1 graves in the cemeteries, shame on you. It surprises me that it has taken you so long (as supposed FOCC) to recognise that those Brave service personnel who gave their lives for OUR freedom are buried in the cemetery. You should not be making any political capital out of these graves.

Your attempt at creating racial tensions failed so you are now looking for another reason to further your so called cause.

The Commission?s rules say that war graves must be marked where possible.

But in his judgement Philip Petchey, Chancellor for the Southwark Diocese, suggested that some of the graves could be left unmarked.

He said: "It occurred to me that in the present case it might be better for all 48 graves to remain unmarked both as reflecting the position at the time of burial and also as of now not seeking to make distinctions between the remains of those buried in the same area."

A spokesman for the Commission said: "We have agreed with Southwark LBC that war graves will not be disturbed during the process and that no burials will take place above the war graves.

"We only have responsibility for the war graves and these have all been identified and will not be affected by the works.

The trees in question are NEXT to One Tree Hill and NOT on One Tree Hill. A corridor does NOT exist on One Tree Hill, more mis-information you are creating.

The prime purpose of a cemetery is to have a place locally where those who have passed away can be buried, visited and remembered by relatives and friends. The cemetery is a place for quietness, reflection and remembrance. It is not a running or cycling track, dog walking or picnic area area, There are parks and enough of them locally for that..

[JoeLeg]

So SSW finally get some national press coverage, and....shock horror....it provides unbiased reporting which makes it look like the council simply did its job, and that other bodies involved think the law needs to be clarified to essentially enable councils to do this kind of thing. And SSW look like a bunch of nimbys?

Or am I reading that wrong!

[Blanche Cameron]

Yesterday the campaign was in The Times.

"Church allows burials again at war cemetery"

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/church-allows-burials-again-at-war-cemetery-jgctzznkn (Paywall)

Also the Telegraph:

"War graves lost as court gives council permission to bury civilians on top of World War I soldiers"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/10/war-graves-lost-court-gives-council-permission-bury-civilians/

Also on ITV and LondonLive. If you have recorded it please contact us.

Lovely day to visit what is left of the woods on Underhill Road in Camberwell Old Cemetery and on One Tree Hill in Camberwell New Cemetery.

Visit: http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/visit/4589491794

Thank you everyone who came on such short notice to the demonstration.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries was founded as Save Southwark Woods in January 2015 to stop the destruction of the woods and graves of Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.

We are for maintaining recreational activities already taking place on cemetery grounds, such as the Recreation Ground and the Allotments.

We are for preserving the cemeteries as Memorial Park Nature Reserves, like Nunhead or Highgate Cemeteries.

[dbboy]

Carry on spreading your mis-information and half truths, you will continue to be exposed for what you really are. VILE.

[JoeLeg]

This has now passed into the realm of the laughable.

So Blanche and Lewis - presumably thinking this will be their ticket onto a Newsnight interview or Panorama expose where they show the evil powers-that-be just who they've messed with - get a bit of national press coverage that turns out to be remarkably balanced and points out that all interested bodies have followed the law. Crying racism hasn't worked, the war graves commission already disagrees with them, and now Blanche has lost track of where exactly One Tree Hill is.

Plus the headlines she's linked to are articles which, um, don't back up their case. Blanche, did you actually read them?

That protest on Saturday wasn't exactly powerful either. Anyway, do carry on kids. I'm now enjoying laughing at you make fools of yourselves.

[Otta]

I'd love them to get a newsnight interview, it would be hilarious.

I like that they are suddenly pretending to care about war graves.

Hadn't been keeping up with this at all. Nice to see it's still as batshit crazy as ever.

[Blanche Cameron]

STATEMENT

Southwark Council has begun cutting down trees on One Tree Hill in Honor Oak for burial plots. See attached map of the area.

We are expecting hoardings to go up today so tree cutters can take down dozens of trees in the Glade. When they are done there will no more glade and One Tree Hill will be scarred forever for 121 burial plots.

Late last week Southwark?s chainsaws returned to Victorian Camberwell Old Cemetery. They cut down 20 trees outside the hoardings on consecrated ground which were unmarked on council planning applications. Hundreds of trees above 75mm at 1.5 metres have now been cut down for subsidised burial in inner London, unfit for almost half of those who require burial, above the graves of paupers and the nation's soldiers.

To read more:

http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/trees-cut-down-for-city-burial/4593725953

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries was founded as Save Southwark Woods in January 2015 to stop the destruction of the woods and graves of Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.

We are for maintaining recreational activities already taking place on cemetery grounds, such as the Recreation Ground and the Allotments.

We are for preserving the cemeteries as Memorial Park Nature Reserves, like Nunhead or Highgate Cemeteries.

[Penguin68]

Southwark Council has begun cutting down trees on One Tree Hill in Honor Oak for burial plots.

No they haven't. One Tree Hill is outside the area which is earmarked for burial, not being in any municipal cemetery. They have probably been clearing within the cemetery area. Publishing a map which has One Tree Hill on it, together with many other landmarks, proves nothing. However, it should be noted that the council may also fell trees on One Tree Hill (but not for burial purposes) if these are either unstable, diseased or need to be cleared for other 'forestry' purposes. Proper maintenance of woodlands and parks does not actually mean 'neglect', whatever ssw may think.

[Penguin68]

For any active academic sociologists or political scientists who might be reading this thread (and its predecessor) can I suggest it would make a wonderful case study in 'post-truth' politics - which predates both the Brexit debate and the Trump election and which may suggest that this is a true underlying sea-change in post war politics. All that is missing (I am assuming) is interference from Russia (happy to stand corrected on that...!)

[HopOne]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> For any active academic sociologists or political

> scientists who might be reading this thread (and

> its predecessor) can I suggest it would make a

> wonderful case study in 'post-truth' politics -

> which predates both the Brexit debate and the

> Trump election and which may suggest that this is

> a true underlying sea-change in post war politics.

> All that is missing (I am assuming) is

> interference from Russia (happy to stand corrected

> on that...!)

How true and this post is a wonderful example of post truth:

"One Tree Hill is outside the area which is earmarked for burial, not being in any municipal cemetery"

This is factually incorrect. One Tree Hill is a geographic feature. I think you may be confusing this with the Local Nature Reserve.

[Abe_froeman]

Cameron, many thanks for bring this to our attention, this is great news for Southwark and I for one congratulate the council

[JoeLeg]

HopOne Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Penguin68 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > For any active academic sociologists or

> political

> > scientists who might be reading this thread

> (and

> > its predecessor) can I suggest it would make a

> > wonderful case study in 'post-truth' politics -

> > which predates both the Brexit debate and the

> > Trump election and which may suggest that this

> is

> > a true underlying sea-change in post war

> politics.

> > All that is missing (I am assuming) is

> > interference from Russia (happy to stand

> corrected

> > on that...!)

>

> How true and this post is a wonderful example of

> post truth:

> "One Tree Hill is outside the area which is

> earmarked for burial, not being in any municipal

> cemetery"

>

> This is factually incorrect. One Tree Hill is a

> geographic feature. I think you may be confusing

> this with the Local Nature Reserve.

That's some creative interpretation of facts there HopOne. SSW are wilfully misrepresenting the councils actions with regards to exactly where the cutting has taken place.

[HopOne]

No it is not. I was up there this morning and took in the great view from the hill. Anyone who disputes this would seem to be unfamiliar with the area!

[JoeLeg]

HopOne Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No it is not. I was up there this morning and

> took in the great view from the hill. Anyone who

> disputes this would seem to be unfamiliar with the

> area!

Ok then, how much of One Tree Hill is actually a municipal cemetery?

[HopOne]

Don't know, hard to be exact. Less than a quarter I would say.

With the works proposed, enough to scar the hill.

[Abe_froeman]

But the great view must be improved with less trees blocking the sight lines?

[JoeLeg]

HopOne Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Don't know, hard to be exact. Less than a quarter

> I would say.

>

> With the works proposed, enough to scar the hill.

Can you provide an aunthenticated link for that claim? A map, anything? Thanks.

[nxjen]

HopOne Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How true and this post is a wonderful example of

> post truth:

> "One Tree Hill is outside the area which is

> earmarked for burial, not being in any municipal

> cemetery"

>

> This is factually incorrect. One Tree Hill is a

> geographic feature. I think you may be confusing

> this with the Local Nature Reserve.

Are you able to point us to a reference that defines One Tree Hill as a geographical area rather than a recreation area? I've looked at old maps and the boundary between One Tree Hill and the Honor Oak Golf course which became the New Cemetery has remained the same. Nowhere can I see a reference to One Tree Hill as a geographical area although in your head it may be. This is called moving the goalposts.

[HopOne]

"This is called moving the goalposts."

Indeed it is. You seem to be redefining a hill. I care not how you interpret a map (they typically name such features in a convenient space), local knowledge has the answer. I suggest you climb the hill, visit the glade, admire then view and then tell me which hill you are standing on (AKA Oak of Honor Hill).

[JoeLeg]

HopOne Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "This is called moving the goalposts."

>

> Indeed it is. You seem to be redefining a hill.

> I care not how you interpret a map (they typically

> name such features in a convenient space), local

> knowledge has the answer. I suggest you climb the

> hill, visit the glade, admire then view and then

> tell me which hill you are standing on (AKA Oak of

> Honor Hill).

Well, if we climb to the top of One Tree Hill then of course we will be on top of One Tree Hill, that's obvious.

What I'm asking - again - is if you're able to provide proof that part of One Tree Hill is a municipal cemetary? Is there an official map somewhere? I'm interested to know your sources.

[nxjen]

HopOne you have not answered my question regarding a reference that defines One Tree Hill as a geographic feature rather than as defined by Southwark Council i.e a recreation area adjoining a cemetery

[HopOne]

Pay attention this time. If you go into Camberwell New Cemetery, walk up the *slope* to the glade, you will find yourself on a hill. Lo, it is the same hill that has St Augustine's on it. That is my source - it is easy to replicate and am inviting you to do so and compare answers. If you don't know a hill when you are standing on one then you need to check a different forum, e.g. one about primary school geography.

[nxjen]

Oh dearie dearie me

[JoeLeg]

HopOne Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Pay attention this time. If you go into

> Camberwell New Cemetery, walk up the *slope* to

> the glade, you will find yourself on a hill. Lo,

> it is the same hill that has St Augustine's on it.

> That is my source - it is easy to replicate and

> am inviting you to do so and compare answers. If

> you don't know a hill when you are standing on one

> then you need to check a different forum, e.g. one

> about primary school geography.

Pay attention this time:

Where is your documented source, that is to say separate from your personal opinion, that defines part of One Tree Hill as a municipal cemetery?

Is there a map I can look at, one issued by the council or anyone else, which shows the geographical parameters of One Tree Hill, and the parts of it which are municipal cemetery?

I'm not trying to be difficult; I'm simply asking to see primary sources. It's not an unreasonable request.

[HopOne]

I think you *are* being difficult. I could equally challenge you to show me a source for the name of a different hill which the New Cemetery also encompasses. The *primary source* I am supplying is first hand evidence which you can replicate if you felt inclined to. My suspicion is that you would prefer to be a keyboard warrior for the fun of it - sorry that is the impression you give. Bye.