20 mph Enforcement in Herne Hill/Denmark Hill

[asfeeley]

Apparently an enforcement officer with a hand held camera will be monitoring traffic and photographing speed limit transgressors very soon, possibly from tomorrow, on Herne Hill and Denmark Hill, so be warned.

Will buses manage to climb the road from the Half Moon Lane end of this stretch at 20mph?

Will cyclists also be monitored?

[apbremer]

Ridiculous. Jobsworths everywhere. Like Brussels councils just CANNOT stop interfering.

[rupert james]

He could be better used cleaning graffiti that is suddenly appearing everywhere again.

2015/16 Tooley street/Queens Road Council office refreshments again came to ?169.000.00.

Perhaps they are running out of money.

Perhaps they now need biscuits.

[Vik]

Buses should be going at 20 anyway. It's been 20mph across Southwark for some time and across Lambeth at least since we drove through a few weeks ago.

ETA: Just looked up and Lambeth doesn't kick in until April 2016, perhaps they're making people aware?

[edhistory]

It will be interesting to see how this is done.

The borough boundary runs down the centre of the road.

West to East - Lambeth

East to West - Southwark

[spider69]

Vik Wrote:

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> Buses should be going at 20 anyway. It's been

> 20mph across Southwark for some time and across

> Lambeth at least since we drove through a few

> weeks ago.

>

> ETA: Just looked up and Lambeth doesn't kick in

> until April 2016, perhaps they're making people

I have tried driving at 20mph across Southwark, it is like taking a trip to hell.

You get on a bus to get from A to B quickly. Get on in a good mood and get off fuming.

Those that have sweet FA to do might think it green and saving a polar bear somewhere but many people who have to work for a living do not.

The latest EU proposal is to make all inner cities congestion charge zones and start charging., No doubt Southwark will be up there first off the blocks.

[kford]

It's actually worse for emissions as most cars are labouring low in third or high in second gear.

[Bic Basher]

edhistory Wrote:

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> It will be interesting to see how this is done.

>

> The borough boundary runs down the centre of the

> road.

>

> West to East - Lambeth

> East to West - Southwark

Sydenham Hill and Wood Vale enforce the 20 mph zone on both sides of the border, despite one half being in Lewisham.

[Applespider]

It's certainly signposted on each side of the boundary there. I won't say it's enforced. ;-p

The average traffic speed at rush hour is only 12mph anyhow so only makes a real time difference if roads are clear. I wonder if they could rephase traffic lights to give those driving at 20mph a green wave to incentivise drivers.

[ratty]

rupert james Wrote:

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> He could be better used cleaning graffiti that is

> suddenly appearing everywhere again.

>

> 2015/16 Tooley street/Queens Road Council office

> refreshments again came to ?169.000.00.

>

> Perhaps they are running out of money.

>

>

> Perhaps they now need biscuits.

Being funded by disposal of Bournemouth road as I understand it. Are councils not allowed to provide decent working environments for their staff?

[spider69]

When it has cost ?496.000.00 over three years. No.

Put machines

so they can buy their own or bring it in like many work places.

[Lowlander]

kford Wrote:

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> It's actually worse for emissions as most cars are

> labouring low in third or high in second gear.

Sorry but this is nonsense. My car hates 30mph on the level (right where I want to change from 3rd to 4th gear). 20mph from the Lordship Pub to the Library at 20mph in 2nd gear is perfect. So was 30mph in 3rd coming down the other way before the limit changed.

Every car is different and the hills around this part of London add to that.

The perfect speed for emissions is between 50mph-60mph depending on the car.

[yourmomma]

Lowlander Wrote:

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> kford Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It's actually worse for emissions as most cars

> are

> > labouring low in third or high in second gear.

>

> Sorry but this is nonsense. My car hates 30mph on

> the level (right where I want to change from 3rd

> to 4th gear). 20mph from the Lordship Pub to the

> Library at 20mph in 2nd gear is perfect. So was

> 30mph in 3rd coming down the other way before the

> limit changed.

>

> Every car is different and the hills around this

> part of London add to that.

>

> The perfect speed for emissions is between

> 50mph-60mph depending on the car.

Is this to reduce emissions though? Or just to reduce collisions and to stop killing people when they get run over?

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's not about emissions, overall it's probably worse in terms of pollution and certainly all the speed bumps are. It's about reducing accidents and the seriousness of accidents, which is also important.

[Nigello]

If "they" - the powers that be - are really interested in keeping casualties to a minimum, why not bring in rules that mean pedestrians have to cross at designated crossing points?

[Lowlander]

Nigello Wrote:

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> If "they" - the powers that be - are really

> interested in keeping casualties to a minimum, why

> not bring in rules that mean pedestrians have to

> cross at designated crossing points?

The only countries where that is illegal is Canada, Mexico, Iran, Singapore and some states in the US

The car industry lobbied hard for "jaywalking" to be made illegal in the 1920s.

Even now it's rarely enforced in these countries.

Humans have a right of way over cars at street junctions - when is that ever enforced?

[Jeremy]

Lowlander Wrote:

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> Humans have a right of way over cars at street

> junctions - when is that ever enforced?

Well I think the rule is pedestrians have right of way if they're already crossing before the car turns into the junction. Surely most drivers do obey this rule?

[Nigello]

THe fact remains that people do take their lives - and that of others in their care - in their hands every hour in and around where we live. Just have a look and you'll see people dashing out from behind parked lorries or stationalry buses into oncoming traffic, even when carrying children and at a distance of only a few feet from a crossing. They have to share some responsibility for accidents.

[Lowlander]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Lowlander Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Humans have a right of way over cars at street

> > junctions - when is that ever enforced?

>

> Well I think the rule is pedestrians have right of

> way if they're already crossing before the car

> turns into the junction. Surely most drivers do

> obey this rule?

Hmm, 80% of the time I have to step back onto the pavement as it's clear the driver does not want to stop (and I'm not playing chicken with a car).

[Earl Aelfheah]

I support measures to reduce the precedent of cars, to slow traffic and improve the environment. The problem is, that will only work if at the same time, significant improvements are made to public / alternative transport. Otherwise no one is going to get anywhere.

[Jeremy]

Lowlander Wrote:

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> Hmm, 80% of the time I have to step back onto the

> pavement as it's clear the driver does not want to

> stop (and I'm not playing chicken with a car).

Depends. I wouldn't cross if a car was already indicating to turn. But if it's not indicating, then I'll cross. Most drivers seem fine to wait... unless they're a black cab driver.

[Sue]

apbremer Wrote:

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> Ridiculous. Jobsworths everywhere. Like Brussels

> councils just CANNOT stop interfering.

There is absolutely no point in having a speed limit at all if it isn't enforced.

I am increasingly seeing drivers just blatantly and dangerously ignoring both speed limits and red lights, speeding down side roads, speeding round corners without looking, crossing on the red when the lights have been red for ages, and pulling out in front of cars which are practically on top of them.

I'm amazed there aren't more accidents, and personally I don't see enforcing traffic rules as either interference or a waste of money.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Problem is, most of the rules aren't enforced - e.g. jumping lights, speeding down side roads, cutting corners and pulling out without looking. We just get speed bumps and the occasional camera. It would be good to get ACTUAL enforcement, by proper traffic police.

[uncleglen]

I wouldn't be complacent even if (by some miraculous universal assimilation of intelligence) cars stuck to the 20mph, especially in side roads, because the only near miss I've had as a pedestrian is a cyclist bombing down the road. They are almost silent until they are close to you, and he would NEVER have been able to stop.

[bobbsy]

All the 20mph limit has done, in my opinion, is negate the effect of having "main roads" and meant that it's now beneficial to speed down smaller residential roads as they are less likely to be enforced/have cameras etc. So i think it's made residential orads less safe.