Cat owners, be alert.

[JoeLeg]

lilolil Wrote:

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> No one is opting out.

> Just asking.

> In my opinion.

Back it up with some kind of evidence or zip it.

If you?re right then it?s pretty serious and warrants the police having their feet held to the fire.

If you?re wrong you?re just scaremongering.

Show some responsibility please, this isn?t a Brexit discussion, what?s being alleged by SNARL is pretty intense. I for one am open seeing to clear evidence - it wouldn?t be the first time the police have covered stuff up - but nothing shown so far is much above tinfoil territory.

[lilolil]

Don't you DARE tell me to zip it!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Comments like yours are unhelpful and have been reported.

[rendelharris]

lilolil Wrote:

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> Don't you DARE tell me to zip it!

> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

> Comments like yours are unhelpful and have been

> reported.

Whereas making unsubstantiated allegations and then refusing to provide evidence for them really helps the debate along, doesn't it?

[JoeLeg]

lilolil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Don't you DARE tell me to zip it!

> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

> Comments like yours are unhelpful and have been

> reported.

I didn?t call you a liar, I said that you need to back up the unsubstantiated allegations you (and SNARL) are making.

It sounds pretty serious to me if SNARL are correct, but I don?t think highly of people going online and saying this kind of stuff while thinking people should take their views as gospel truth.

You?re putting forward your opinion as fact, and in light of the seriousness of the allegations made you need to provide evidence or zip it.

[edcam]

I did have a suspicion that this whole story was scaremongering. Urban foxes are pretty bold creatures, so this makes sense.

[Mscrawthew]

A view on the mutilations from a reliable source.

https://www.facebook.com/158681810859025/posts/1907440542649801/

OUR VIEW - THIS IS INCORRECT!

At Streatham Hill Vets we have had several of these bodies brought into us. They have all consisted of clean, surgical type amputations or beheadings. They were NOT done by foxes or wild animals. It is exceptionally rare for a fox to attack a cat and they should not be used as scapegoats for these horrific crimes. We're afraid that our combined significant veterinary experience is going to have to differ with the pathologist on this case.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/20/croyd

[Angelina]

Foxes very rarely attack cats - they don't see them as something to eat or a threat. Foxes and cats keep to themselves.

So, as long as it's rubber stamped it's gospel? I am surprised how gullible people are.

[Elphinstone's Army]

Years ago, in the country - we had a little female cat, half Persian, a real mouser. We heard her growling one night and pulled open the (garden) door to see her on the mat, ignoring us, her hackles risen and her tail like a bog brush, facing down two young foxes, (smallish) and did not move until they had slunk away. Next night on the same mat we found a couple of pipistrelles she had caught but not eaten. She would come through the catflap with mouses and chomp on their heads and leave bloody remains, sometimes whole mice if she had her fill, not a mark on them.

She was small but fearless, kept next doors chickens out of our veg patch and once, unbelievably, we witnessed her chasing ! a lost dog, of the labrador size, through the orchard, away from her home patch.

In Heber Road we have had rabbits plural and guinea pigs, loose in the back garden/yard taken by foxes, even though we were always careful not to let them out too early and close them up (they were usually in their beds voluntarily) at sundown, so bold foxes, and kept the cats in at night, yowl though they would.

In the country we would lock everything up at night, cats kittens chickens horses geese,and dogs in the barn, from marauding foxes and in France, marauding wild dogs which no one ever acknowledged, in rural France the sky is black and lightless, who knows what is out there, (dead mangled lambs in the morning, entrails gone, foxes.)

There are fox habits I could describe but would not want to batter urbanite sensibilities, a strong stomach is necessary in the country (particularly France)

Here in East Dulwich we have street lights, sensors, cctv, car alarms, barking (yapping) dogs, indoor cats with cosy baskets, small animals outside in fastened cages.

Who knows how these poor animals meet their horrible end.

There is an article in Kent newspaper saying the town is over run with rats, as the fox population was culled, foxes apparently keeping down the rats, now the rats are two foot long ? and attacking cats !?

Rats would not be able to drag a cat would they? I can find the article if anyone wants to check.

I don't believe that, if the assailant is human, that it is only one person. Wasn't there a case in Tranmere near Birkenhad and speculation that a long distance lorry driver was the psycho cat killer?

Is there anyone who can access the Dark Web and explore this theory, of a cabal of cat killers?

When animals kill, to eat, they kill by the neck and gorge on the entrails and leave the rest.

Cats kill birds and mice and voles and small helpless animals because they can, they are natural

born killers,

Ours eats spiders, the bigger the better and can be seen with spider legs hanging from her mouth, she likes to hear me scream.

She is nervous and I cannot imagine anyone approaching and grabbing her, she would fight scratch, maim.

She has drawn blood and gouged a hole in my wrist when I picked her up warm from sleep, cats are wary -

how would a stranger manage to coax a cat from beneath a car or enter a garden to grab a watchful cat, it is too

chanceful.

Here's hoping all cats and kittens are safe tonight, rabbits guinea pigs and any other small creature which should die of old age and not screaming, terrified, when we cannot protect them.

[Elphinstone's Army]

lilolil Wrote:

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> Don't you DARE tell me to zip it!

> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

> Comments like yours are unhelpful and have been

> reported.

With respect lil, - show workings out :

your remarks are tantalising but meaningless unless substantiated - how can you not

understand?

[JoeLeg]

Mscrawthew Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A view on the mutilations from a reliable source.

>

> https://www.facebook.com/158681810859025/posts/190

> 7440542649801/

> OUR VIEW - THIS IS INCORRECT!

> At Streatham Hill Vets we have had several of

> these bodies brought into us. They have all

> consisted of clean, surgical type amputations or

> beheadings. They were NOT done by foxes or wild

> animals. It is exceptionally rare for a fox to

> attack a cat and they should not be used as

> scapegoats for these horrific crimes. We're afraid

> that our combined significant veterinary

> experience is going to have to differ with the

> pathologist on this case.

> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/20/croyd

Now that?s the kind of informed dissenting opinion that is useful. The whole thing seems very strange.

[lilolil]

I did try to copy that link to the post. I have been really upset by some of the personal comments directed at me.

I do believe that there is someone out there who is doing this. That is my opinion.

Hopefully I am wrong but there are many people with similar views to me.

[rendelharris]

Angelina Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Foxes very rarely attack cats - they don't see

> them as something to eat or a threat. Foxes and

> cats keep to themselves.

>

> So, as long as it's rubber stamped it's gospel? I

> am surprised how gullible people are.

Foxes virtually never attack cats - I've seen my cats in the past facing them up and owning them. What foxes do is scavenge on cats that have sadly been hit by cars - and they tend to go for heads and tails, these being the easiest parts to eat.

[rendelharris]

lilolil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I did try to copy that link to the post. I have

> been really upset by some of the personal comments

> directed at me.

> I do believe that there is someone out there who

> is doing this. That is my opinion.

> Hopefully I am wrong but there are many people

> with similar views to me.

You have been asked, politely and reasonably, by me, to provide evidence for your statements. If you can't, that's fine, but then I can't see why you expect your comments to be taken seriously. "I believe" is not actually evidence.

[lilolil]

No, it is not evidence. You're right.

[rendelharris]

lilolil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No, it is not evidence. You're right.

So would you care, as you obviously feel passionate about this, to offer some substantive evidence?

[lilolil]

Only to suggest that you might care to read up on the case which is widely documented on Twitter and Facebook.

I do not want to get involved in a slanging match with you or anyone else.

Please respect my views as I respect yours.

[rendelharris]

lilolil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Only to suggest that you might care to read up on

> the case which is widely documented on Twitter and

> Facebook.

> I do not want to get involved in a slanging match

> with you or anyone else.

> Please respect my views as I respect yours.

Nobody has disrespected your views, you have simply been asked to provide evidence for your statements, which apparently you are unable or unwilling to do. I suggest you look at the conclusions of the police team, whom you previously eulogised as being experts.

[Angelina]

I think the tone has become a little aggressive and not necessary.

Everyone has a right to disagree and I agree with one set of professionals more than the other. As do many people. It's not really fair to pick on one individual.

I would have thought that the official consultation would have included collaboration with the vets (also professionals) who had taken the bodies of the animals over the few years. Do we know why that didn't happen?

I do know that if I want a particular view on anything endorsed, I can get it. But I guess that's politics.

[Take Note]

Learned behaviour, maybe - Opposable thumbs def not. I'm not going to argue with the vet's view that the cats she saw could not have been mutilated by another predator. Having said that foxes do share some humans' love of killing for fun, as seen by their destruction of chickens. The sooner we stop feeding them, and making them reliant on us, the better.

I'm so glad I don't have a cat. I'd be terrified to let it out and I feel so bad for anyone who loses their pet in this way.

[rendelharris]

Take Note Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> foxes do share some humans' love of killing for

> fun, as seen by their destruction of chickens.

That's a pernicious myth about foxes, perpetrated by the fox-hunting lobby. Yes, when a fox gets into a hen run, it will kill as many as it can, with the intention of returning and burying what it hasn't eaten for eating later or, in the right season, bringing cubs to eat. Usually its entry is detected before it can do this. It's both anthropomorphic and inaccurate to say they "kill for fun".

> I'm not going to argue with the vet's view that

> the cats she saw could not have been mutilated

> by another predator.

But you are going to argue with the Head of Veterinary Forensic Pathology at the Royal Veterinary College and the Metropolitan Police Force, who say it's foxes.

[first mate]

I have known of cats being attacked by foxes. Granted the cats were elderly but one was badly injured as a result. Foxes are opportunists and I would think a kitten or elderly cat might well be vulnerable at certain times of the year. That said it probably doesn't happen a lot because we would hear aboout it.

RendelharrisWrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Angelina Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Foxes very rarely attack cats - they don't see

> > them as something to eat or a threat. Foxes and

> > cats keep to themselves.

> >

> > So, as long as it's rubber stamped it's gospel?

> I

> > am surprised how gullible people are.

>

> Foxes virtually never attack cats - I've seen my

> cats in the past facing them up and owning them.

> What foxes do is scavenge on cats that have sadly

> been hit by cars - and they tend to go for heads

> and tails, these being the easiest parts to eat.

[nxjen]

To continue to discuss whether foxes attack cats or not is missing the point of the findings of the Police and their expert witnesses. They do not conclude that these poor cats have been attacked and killed by foxes, their deaths have been attributed to injuries incurred by being hit by cars. Even Streatham Hill Vets in their facebook post overlook this.

[singalto]

When my cat was killed by a car he was still in one piece. Many of the mutilated cats were found curled up on their owners? door steps with bits neatly cut off. How can a fox or a car do that?

[first mate]

I am not for one moment suggesting that foxes have posed the corpses of cats on owner doorsteps.

I for one will keep an open mind. It could be that some of the killings have been at the hands of a human/s and others have a different explanation. In these cash strapped times I can also imagine that the police might want to close down further investigation.

[singalto]

The Streatham vets still reckon this is the work of a human.