Oyster on the trains from 2nd Jan

[PeckhamRose]

Liverpool Street Station to White Hart lane ?3.20

Return ?5.40

BUT

Single journey there Oyster ?2.

Therefore return on Oyster another ?2.

?4 is cheaper than ?5.40.

And yes, I had to do that trip today and all over London using Oyster on trains tubes DLR and busses for 8 hours!

[zephyr]

Green Goose Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hopefully someone can answer this query about

> Oyster.

>

> Lets say you go to ED station and swipe your

> Oyster then proceed up tothe platform to catch the

> train to LB. You wait for the train and then

> there's an announcement that all trains are

> cancelled due to the snow.

>

> Question is ....if you swipe out, does it

> effectively cancel the journey and no debit is

> made on the card?

> GG

I had a problem this week. My card is registered and has auto top-up. On Wednesday we had all the snow so there was bound to be chaos on the trains. I get a train from Nunhead to Elephant (since I came off my motorbike in last weeks snow). When I arrived at Nunhead, I checked that there was actually a train coming before I swiped in. Unfortunately the first train that came was jam packed so had to wait for the next one. Got on the next one but what should have been about a 12 minute jorney ended up being 50 minutes as we were held at Denmark hill and then half way between DH and Elephant.

These delays meant it was 1 hour and 46 minutes between swiping in and swiping out at Elephant. There must be a time limits on certain journeys as with would not let me swipe out at elephant - so I was charged the maximum fare of ?6. I phoned to get a refund yesterday. The complete days journey should cost ?3.60 under the new system (I get a tube to Tooting) but I paid about ?10. I don't think the refund will be the full amount because it woul depend upon the whole days journeys

The day before I asked the ticket office bloke about swiping in and out if you don't get a train - you have to call for the refund.

Points to note:

1. There seems to be a time limit within which certain journeys should be completed

2. You have to wait ATLEAST 24 hours for the journey to appear on your account - probably worth waiting for 48 hours for the whole day to appear if necessary

3. Remember that ?6 is taken off your card initially when you first swipe in and is adjusted when you swipe out - You must swipe out or you short journey will cost ?6

4. Always check the Oyster screen when you swipe in and out

[ianr]

zephyr Wrote:>

> These delays meant it was 1 hour and 46 minutes

> between swiping in and swiping out at Elephant.

> There must be a time limits on certain journeys as

> with would not let me swipe out at elephant - so I

> was charged the maximum fare of ?6. I phoned to

> get a refund yesterday.

The maximum journey times are at

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/12421.aspx#Maximum_journey_times

In an ideal world, a system would, I suppose, be collating swipe-time data with that for actual travel times, and making automatic corrections. I can understand why that's not the case, but it does put the onus squarely on the passenger to check their transactions, and query them if need be.

[zephyr]

I did ask the woman yesterday when I phoned - she said there wasn't any limits initially then changed her mind when she saw my account

[Ginster]

This is just getting more complicated!

FYI I did hear back from TFL (with an apology for it taking a while) but they said the OEP for travelcards on Oyster was a condition the TOCs (Train Operating Companies) insisted on when rolling out Oyster to stations.

I looked on Saturday at rather a flashy new looking ticket machine at Charing Cross - still no sign of OEP on that machine so not sure where to get these from other than queueing at the ticket office. Now from reading above I'm not sure what is cheaper, maybe I should just by a separate PAYG oyster and use that when I go outside of zone 2 which (thankfully with all this complication) isn't that often.

[telegramsam]

And at the weekend the 'seek assitance' light came up with open barrier;went through owing to crowds and got charged ?6.00 for the journey. Speaking to station staff they seem unsure of rules and told me to ask at Underground stations where 'they know'. Not sure evryone has been trained how to advise us on Oysters'.

Sam

[Bic Basher]

After a stern email to TFL customer services, I received a phone call from the Oyster helpline, who have refunded me ?10 as a goodwill gesture after getting charged ?6 for a journey from Charing Cross on Jan 11th.

[sophiesofa]

Hello I have a question. So I have a zone 1 and 2 travelcard (with some extra money on for when i go beyond zone 2 on the tube) but this evening I will be travelling from Victoria to Blackheath (zone 3) so I need to queue up at the manned ticket booths and ask for a zone extension right? Thanks in advance!

[ianr]

ss, if unOystered or without PAYG credit, then yes, as always, a Boundary Zone 2 to Blackheath ticket is what you would want. I don't know if machines do them as well. Presumably they would at least give you one from the last Z2 station on your route.

BUT if you have a TC on an Oyster card with credit you're happy to use, then getting an Oyster Extension Permit would seem to be the thing. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx#section-5. Hopefully, machines at Victoria may by now be able to give you one. It's important to ensure you touch out at Blackheath. That's my theoretical understanding, anyway.

[sophiesofa]

Cor it is complicated! Thanks very much ianr

[ianr]

>Cor it is complicated!

If you want to do the advanced course, there are threads on uk.transport.london where people are trying, sometimes through experiment, to work out precise details of how the interaction of Oyster and NR works in all circumstances.

Someone there has obtained and posted some TfL internal instructions re OEP and NR PAYG. If you go to http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/oyster_extension_permits#incoming-62007, the relevant URLs are contained in TFL's 29/12/2009 email. Here's an extract:

-------

Where do you get it?

The OEP is free of charge and can be loaded at touch screen LU POMs, LU ticket

office, local ticket outlets; Oyster enabled TVMs and NR ticket office with Oyster

issuing equipment. To load an OEP the customer will be required to have a PAYG

balance of at least ?1.50 to cover any additional fare due. The OEP can also be

removed at the same issuing devices.

How will it work?

Once the OEP is loaded, when the customer touches-in to start a journey even if it is

within a Zone covered by their Season ticket, an entry charge will be deducted from

the card.

If they touch-out still within the Zonal coverage of their Season ticket, the entry

charge will be refunded and the OEP will remain on the card. If they touch-out in

another Zone the fare for the additional travel will be deducted from the entry charge,

the PAYG balance will be adjusted accordingly and the OEP will be cancelled.

Key messages for customers?

They need to load an OEP if they wish to extend their journey on a TOC service within

the Travelcard zones.

Once an OEP is loaded, they must ensure they touch-in and touch-out correctly.

The OEP will stay active on the card until it is validated outside of the Zones covered

by their Season ticket, an incomplete journey occurs or it is removed.

----------

end of extract

-----------

The point about the OEP remaining active is important. As I understand it, should you one day enter an NR gate within your travelcard area having an active OEP and then forget to touch out when exiting, even within your TC area, the OEP entry charge *won't* be corrected, as the system will treat it as an uncompleted journey.

[Izodia]

And what happens if you travel outside of your travelcard zones with PAYG but don't have an OEP on your card?

I was looking forward to using Oyster PAYG at weekends for journeys outside my usual commute. But needing to get these OEPs seem to cancel out any added convenience.

[Ramble66]

Thanks zephyr,

Having read your post I decided to check my journey history for a journey I was delayed on. I had been charged ?9.30 for a single journey which should have taken 35 miniutes but took 1hour 40!! I hadn't thought to check. Rather than over charging it should refund the cost of the whole journey for such poor service!!

Thanks again.

[sophiesofa]

Thanks again Ian. Izodia, I guess you'd get charged the maximum of ?6? Or if a ticket checker catches you you could get a fine although I'd hope they wouldn't do this seeing as the system is new and complicated and I haven't seen the extension permit advertised anywhere.

[Ginster]

Posted by: Izodia Yesterday, 09:21AM

And what happens if you travel outside of your travelcard zones with PAYG but don't have an OEP on your card?

I was looking forward to using Oyster PAYG at weekends for journeys outside my usual commute. But needing to get these OEPs seem to cancel out any added convenience.

Exactly what I had hoped Izodia - but no - it's as complicated (and so far impossible) to get an OEP too, I have yet to find it on a machine. It was annoying enough before that you couldn't by a boundary zone extension ticket from a machine, for me nothing has changed and I still have to queue up at a ticket booth ;o(

[Applespider]

Izodia - if it's entirely outwith your zones (i.e. you have zone 1 and 2 and you're travelling zones 3-5), then you don't need an OEP, just enough PAYG cash.

If your journey starts within your zones and finishes outside, then you do need an OEP. And I have found one on a machine at Victoria although since it's a 'free' thing, I really don't get why there can't be a special place to swipe it rather than wait in a queue with all those more time-consuming transactions that involve payment.

If you start outside and end up inside your zones, again I don't think you need the OEP although I'm not entirely convinced how the charging will work on that one...

[Izodia]

Hmmm, that's a shame it's not so convenient to use. I liked the idea of having 2 separate Oyster cards.

I'm wondering though, if I feign ignorance and travel without an OEP is it just that I might encounter a ticket inspector or will some extra charge be taken from my Oyster PAYG? It sounds like no-one knows yet. I suspect it might take the full cash fare to penalise you. So people who don't know about OEPs will complain and be told about the existance of OEPs. And eventually like that people will come to know about them.

[Marmora Man]

As far as I know as long as you touch in and out on all train services there's no need for any complicated extension. My Oyster Card isn't for any specific zones it's just for use on relevant transport systems.

EG: Today I used my Oyster card from Herne Hill to Victoria this morning - which is not a usual journey but I had just taken the car in for a service nearby. I "activated" the card at a card reader near the station entrance (hard to find but eventually located it) and validated the journey by touching the card reader at Victoria. Cost ?2.10 for a single journey pre 09.30 - which was less than a single would have cost otherwise (about ?2.80 I think).

[mikese22]

I have both an annual Z12 travelcard and PAYG on my Oyster with auto top-up when my balance drops below ?5

I used the card at East Croydon last week and was charged ?1.70 on my PAYG - cheaper than the listed price of ?2 on the TfL website - no requirement for a OEP?

[Applespider]

Mike, were you starting or ending at East Croydon? If you start outside your zones and finish inside or outside your zones, it manages to figure it all out. If you start inside your zones and finish outside, then you need the OEP... unless something has magically changed.

[sophiesofa]

Marmora Man, that's what happens for pay as you go but if you have a travel card and intend to go beyond your designated zone for some reason you will need to go to a ticket machine and put an Oyster Extension Ticket onto the oyster card before you travel and touch in and out but you won't be charged. Annoying but how it is unfortunately.

[Ginster]

So... another update from me - on another thread I've seen comments on how to get an OEP on a ticket machine and the other morning I happened to look as I walked past a machine and saw the option on the screen (I think it was the ED station ticket machine) so next time I have some time before a train and there is no queue I will have a look to see if I can get that option to appear! So far I've still been buying paper extensions when going out of zone. I also still hope for the day you can buy extension tickets (eg from boundary zone 2) from a machine...

[DaveD]

Do you need an OEP?

I've got a zone 1-2 travelcard on my oystercard and when I've travelled from zone 1 to zone 4(Norwood Junction or Selhurst) or zone 4 to zone 1, it's taken the correct amount from the Oyster Pay as you go. It seems to just charge for the journey from the zone 2 boundary - ?1.50. I've never bothered putting an OEP on my oyster card.

[ianr]

All that's really telling you is that the machines don't issue penalty fares in such circumstances. It doesn't say what would happen if an RPI wanted to check your ticket somewhere between zone 2 and your destination and found no OEP.

That said, I'm not sure that anyone's yet clear as to what would happen, or how assiduously they'd try to enforce any PF. We're still, anyway, in a bedding-in period, with some passengers, and staff, not fully clued up, and maybe not as much availability of OEP-granting machines as there ought to be, so they might conceivably exercise discretion favourably.

There's also some internal opposition to OEPs, so who knows what will develop:

"TfL is working closely with the TOCs to monitor and resolve station specific issues. I have concerns about the lack of TOC staff knowledge on the Oyster Extension Permit, which is not applicable on the TfL network, and which is not supported by TfL."

and

"The main policy area of the rollout that still remains an issue is the Oyster Extension Permit, required by the TOCs, and not by TfL. Oyster Extension Permits are required on National Rail services in London, where a customer with a Travelcard plans to travel outside the zones that they have purchased, using Oyster PAYG. I have written to the TOCs and to the Association of Train Operating Companies to ask them to rethink this impediment to travel."

TfL Board, Commisioner's Report, Feb 2010 http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/boardandchiefofficers/papers/1436.aspx

and "London TravelWatch has called for the Oyster Extension Permits to be scrapped. " http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/news.php?id=700

[Ginster]

Latest from me...

Put an OEP on my card from the ticket machine at ED on Monday - was quick and easy.

Headed to Croydon for a few hours and then returned, didn't put another OEP on in Croydon as believe if you start outside your zones to head back in you don't need one/it works it out.

It all worked - however I lost money. When I buy a paper ticket I get a gold card return from boundary zone 2 to Croydon stations. That costs ?2.30. The charges on Monday were ?1.70 on the way out and ?2.20 on the way back - bit confusing that the prices were different for exactly the same journey and rather annoying that the system wasn't clever enough to charge me the usual return ticket price as all my travel was on the same day.

So looks like queuing at the ticket office just like before for me so I get the best price!