Temporary traffic lights East Dulwich Road/Peckham Rye junction

[Manda]

Yes, it seems that it was a young girl knocked down and killed by a lorry. Completely tragic.

Why has there been no provision for pedestrians to cross while the roadworks have been going on? I cross this road each morning and I just knew something was going to happen, in fact at least one person on here predicted there would be some kind of accident. I've watched motorists drive like lunatics to get through the lights and pedestrians have to take pot luck as to when it's safe to cross...

The work looked like it was finished yesterday so why wasn't the junction returned to normal?

It's always been a really dangerous junction, people drive very badly through it but the roadworks left us without a pedestrian crossing.... surely this is very wrong?

[daizie]

Yes you're right. It is very wrong. It is not clear when it is safe to cross . Someone somewhere should be held accountable .

[Penguin68]

While a number of people (those with prams, with wheel-chairs, with some other disabilities) couldn't benefit, this is precisely the type of junction which used to benefit from a pedestrian bridge - considering the number of school children moving around this area those at least could be protected from (and unimpeded by) the traffic.

Although I understand the arguments about not implementing services which cannot be used by all, had there been a bridge, even a temporary one during the road works which made things worse, this could have been avoided (possibly).

The only other sensible option is fencing the whole juction off and forcing pedestrian crossing (pelican controlled) down each of the server streets so that pedestrian crossing is over single stretches of road, with no turning traffic. This is clearly inconvenient to pedestrians, but inconvenience may be a reasonable price to pay to avoid injury and worse.

The junction itself is pretty important to public and private wheeled vehicles - to seal that off in some way would reqire alternative routings which would force traffic into residential streets.

The Danish option (I think it's Danish) would be to remove all traffic controls and street markings, thus forcing caution and more careful driving on motorists; but I'm not sure we're ready for that in ED.

[1111]

I was passing by on a number 12 bus the moment it happened, I wanted to get off but was in shock, in fact I still am, now my worst fears are being confirmed. There were people there at her side within seconds of it all happening. Still cant come to terms with this (being a father of a young child myself). I allways thought that juction has a hazzard road works or otherwise.

If what you're saying is true then my heart goes out to her parents.

[*Anna*]

This is from the Met:

Police are appealing for witnesses to come forward following the death of a 10 yr old girl in a road traffic collision in East Dulwich.

Police were called at approx 0800hrs to reports of a lorry in collision with a child on East Dulwich Road, jct with Peckham Rye, SE22.

Officers and LAS attended and discovered a girl, aged 10, suffering injuries. She was taken to Kings College Hospital where she was pronounced dead at 0844hrs.She has been identified as Latoya Smith aged 10 from SE27.

A formal identification has taken place and next of kin have been informed. A date for a post mortem examination is to be decided.

A man, aged 44, was arrested at the scene and has been taken to a south London police station. Enquiries continue.

Sergeant Simon Seeley, from the MPS Traffic Collision Investigation Unit said:?This incident happened at a busy time and lots of people will have witnessed this terrible tragedy. It is crucial that we establish the events that led up to this young child?s death and we appeal for anyone who saw this collision to get in touch. In particular, there were several people at a bus stop at the location, who kindly rushed to the assistance of the child before the ambulance arrived, we would very much like to speak to all of them.?

Anyone with information is to contact Collision Investigation Unit at Catford Traffic Garage on 020 8285 1574.

[boosboss]

The roadworks and temporary lights have now been removed.

[dulwichbloke]

I'm disgusted by this. I don't know whether the temporary lights and the lack of any pedestrian lights played a part in this awful accident this morning, but I wouldn't be surprised, having seen how awful the traffic has been there. Whether or not it was a contributing factor, this is always a dangerous and very busy junction, but all the more so for the last 4 or 5 weeks. Day after day these 'works' have been deserted, but the lights have stayed up. JBarber posted that he had been told the works were ending on about 8th January. Here we are at the 26th, almost 3 weeks later (with little or no sign of any on-going work since 8th Jan). This morning a young girl is killed there and by the evening, someone has finally turned up and finished the work in a couple of hours or so and the whole junction is re-opened. Surely their sudden arrival is no coincidence.

If that was all that was needed to finish and re-open the junction, why did it take so very long? I will take some convincing that there was no way they couldn't come and make it safe sooner. Someone concerned should explain.

[sniffy]

^ Are you serious?? has all the work been, shall we say 'visually completed'??!! and cleared.....

F*@king disgusting!! i smell some shadiness :-S

[malleymoo]

Somehow hearing that they have suddenly "sorted out" the junction is even more distressing. If it was that easy to rectify why didnt they sort it before now. What a tragic waste of a young life.

[Sue]

malleymoo Wrote:

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> If it

> was that easy to rectify why didnt they sort it

> before now.

xxxxxxx

Yeh exactly (6)

[Amysdad]

It looked ready to go last night.

[DeptfordDiva]

Would filter lights improve this junction?

[bob]

Now Gone.

Bob S

[Ramble66]

Yes a filter light is needed. Esp turning right from East Dulwich road. To do this you have to go in to the yellow box and wait for the on coming traffic to eventually stop going through on amber/red and then turn nearly always once the traffic to the right has started to move. You just can't turn otherwise. Even cyclists go through from Nunhead side to east dulwich side on red, I've nearly caught one when the cars have eventually stopped and I go to finish turning right.

There is a right filter on the lights at goose green why not at the rye?

It is so tragic about the little girl, I just hope they actually make the junction safer.

[Sue]

There aren't any lights at Goose Green, are there? It's a roundabout.

Have I got this totally wrong (quite likely)?

[boothy]

Absolutely tragically a little girl was killed at this junction at 8am on Wednesday 27th Jan. She was hit by a lorry at the junction where the traffic lights are out due to the roadworks.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23799649-10-year-old-crushed-to-death-by-lorry-as-she-walks-to-school.do

I recently emailed Tessa Jowell expressing concern about the roads in East Dulwich. Her email is [email protected]. should you wish to do the same. Let us hope that no other people; young or old are killed on the roads in ED.

[skidmarks]

Ramble66 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes a filter light is needed. Esp turning right

> from East Dulwich road. To do this you have to go

> in to the yellow box and wait for the on coming

> traffic to eventually stop going through on

> amber/red and then turn nearly always once the

> traffic to the right has started to move. You

> just can't turn otherwise. Even cyclists go

> through from Nunhead side to east dulwich side on

> red, I've nearly caught one when the cars have

> eventually stopped and I go to finish turning

> right.

>

> There is a right filter on the lights at goose

> green why not at the rye?

>

> It is so tragic about the little girl, I just hope

> they actually make the junction safer.

Just so you get the terms correct when you ask the authorities for this arrow on the signals, a traffic signal lesson.

What you are asking for is called and INDICATIVE arrow which comes on at the end of the green signal stage to show you that the opposing traffic has been stopped and you can turn right.

A FILTER arrow is different and comes on before the main green signal and usually is used for traffic to filter left, it will also go off when the main signal goes green.

One down side you will have to put up with is the indicative signal is that it will result in the opposing traffic stream having less green signal time which will mean more delays and queues. If you can accept this then it is not a problem.

One thing that is done at these types of junction to try and make them safer is not allowing drivers to see the signals once they have entered the junction to turn right (closely associated secondary signals). You can see this on the photo I?ve attached of a junction in Dagenham. This puts the responsibility on the driver to make sure it is clear of traffic before they turn right instead of them watching the traffic lights.

[the-e-dealer]

Halfway Down GooseGreen at CPR/Adys Junction

[Ramble66]

Thanks for the correct terms Skidmark. Question, and agian please excuse my incorrect/poor wording. When turning right I usually go into the yellow box and wait for the on coming traffic to eventually stop. As mentioned this is usually once the lights are on Red. This means I am in the yellow box and turning right with the lights on Red. Is this wrong to do? It is virtually impossible to turn right if you are not the first car unless you are willing to 'just go for it'. I feel an indicative arrow is needed or drivers coming from the opposite direction need to stop driving though on amber/red to allow the traffic to turn right.

Yes sorry I mean the lights at CPR/Adys road.

[simonethebeaver]

I'm so shocked to read that this poor little girl has been killed. I saw her after the accident and also saw which lorry did it-one I had seen racing down Forest Hill Road soon before. I crossed there several times while the lights were up and it was scary enough for an adult. Why on earth weren't pedestrian crossing provisions made? The whole handling of these roadworks has been appalling.

[cate]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

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> Halfway Down GooseGreen at CPR/Adys Junction

The arrow there isn't always in operation. Wonder if it is only at rush hours. I have avoided the East Dulwich Rd/Peckham Rye intersection for the last two months. Prior to the work starting, I hated turning right from ED Road onto Peckham Rye. Without fail cars and vans would come barreling across from the Nunhead side, sometimes when I was already in a turn. It is very frightening there. Van drivers were definitely the worst.

My condolences to LaToya's family. There was an item about her on the ITV local news today.

[sophiesofa]

Simon, if you saw the lorry driver "racing down Forest Hill Road soon before" then it might be worth getting in touch with the police as a witness. You might have already but just incase you haven't because they are appealing for witnesses and I guess this includes the events prior to the tragedy too.

[SimonM]

>>This means I am in the yellow box and turning right with the lights on Red. Is this wrong to do<<

I believe this is perfectly legal as long as the road you are turning into (Peckham Rye here?) is otherwise free to enter.

[James Barber]

Hi boothy,

If you want to raise any issue in the hope of political changes then several different factors that appear involved.

The type of lorry doesn't have side guards as tipper trucks are exempt. Then yes contact the relevant MP which for this junction would be Harriet Harman and tell her this exemption is outrageous.

If you're concerned about local Southwark roads then such as East Dulwich Road then tell your councillor or the responsible councillor [email protected] for road safety.

If you think having more ways to enforce speed limits then that's national government changing rules for things like averaging speed cameras - again Harriet.

[James Barber]

A jury at Southwark coroners court passed their verdict on the tragic death of Latoya Smith a local 10 year old child. They stated they thought lost opportunities for better signage and diversion. Headphones were being worn. But importantly the coroner stated "I'm satisfied that there is a risk that continues to lives of members of the public in certain situations where pedestrian lights are switched out."

He then said he'd be writing to the Department of Transport calling for better road work management.

At the time I obtained agreement from Southwark officers that pedestrian phases would be integrated into future temporary signals.

Hopefully rules will be amended to make a national difference to reduce the chance of this being repeated in another community.

Very sad.

If you'd like to encourage this then please do write to your MP: http://www.writetothem.com