Potty training - surely there are natural hygiene instincts?

[ryedalema]

We're trying to potty train our 2.5 year old. We've taken it pretty easy so far as she's gone through a lot of change - new nursery, broken arm (now mended), new baby sister (now 5 days old), but are thinking about cranking up the process again as we've mutual time off (maternity and paternity leave) and she seems quite unfazed and happy about our new arrival.

Thing is she doesn't seem fazed to be either wet or dirty. I put her in pretty knickers this morning with express instructions to 'tell Mummy if you need to wee or poo' and placed potties around the house for quick access. She then weed and pooed (sorry for the graphic imagery) in her clothes and was quite happy to walk around like that. I asked her if she needed the toilet, or if she had already 'gone', and she said 'no'.

How do i get past this? Is she 'going feral'? :-)

[Pickle]

I used the Gina Ford book to successfully potty train our son when he was just under 2.5 - it eases them in to the process quite gently and logically and most of my friends who used it had success like we did. Happy to lend you our copy if you would like?

[bluebrick]

Hi There

I've just been reading your post on the Forum about Potty training your 2 1/2 year old daughter, and thought I should write & tell you about our little boy, we started when he was about 2 1/2 but after loads of frustrating attempts, constant change of pants, clothes etc we felt the time was obviously just not right...we didn't think we would ever get him potty trained until the warmer weather came when he could run around with no trousers on etc and let him sit on the potty during the day whilst watching tv or playing games etc, my advice to you is first and foremost please don't stress about when she's potty trained as they will let you know when the time is right - every child is different (some fully potty trained at 2 and some at 3 or even 4)and I know as a first time mother you feel you have constant milestones to reach in their development....., my little boy who's now 3 lets me know when he want's to go to the toilet and is completely dry by day & night which is great but I'm sure we will get the occasional accident (but only to be expected)and never read any child/toddler books..PLEASE DO NOT READ ANY BOOKS AS EVERY CHILD IS DIFFERENT AND YOUR CHILD WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN HE/SHE IS READY OR YOU CAN DO IS TRY AT DIFFERENT TIMES - THEY REALLY ARE A WASTE OF MONEY!!!!!. Another suggestion would be every time you go to the toilet, ask them if they need to go and sit them on it - if nothing happens don't worry..rest assure you will get there and so will your little girl. I hope it helps.

Best wishes & Goodluck

[Pickle]

Bluebrick, the good thing about the Gina Ford book is that it doesn't force the matter at all - so there's no point using it with a child who isn't ready (and one of the first things the book outlines is the signs to look for to help you work out whether they are physcially and mentally ready). We found it useful for giving advice on the approach to use once our son was ready to be potty trained - it's not like the other books she writes at all. Personally I think it was money well spent :)

[mumof3girlies]

My eldest daughter was in the same position as your little one when potty training - about 2 years 4 months old, when her little sister came along, because of this I just kept her in nappies as she had shown really very little interest in potty training before this, I secretly used to think 'I don't think she's ever going to get it...', but lo and behold at 2 years 5 months a month after her sister was born she got up one morning and said 'don't want a nappy today' and that was the last nappy she ever wore in the daytime. She had a few accidents, literally maybe 4 or 5 but it was pretty painless, I just got used to having a pair of pants and trousers in my bag at all times! I think if you just wait until they let you know they're ready it just clicks and turns out much easier for you too. I think once toddlers sense there is any tension around the issue they start getting tense about the toilet too, although I know its hard especially with your first and everybody else telling you their child is younger and already potty trained, but don't compare, like bluebrick said all children are so different - my second insisted on coming out of nappies day and night at bang on 2 - desperate to be like her big sis!

Best wishes and congrats on arrival of number two!:)

[Pickle]

That's interesting Mumof3... I think my 2nd will be out of nappies earlier than my son, she seems a lot more aware of wet nappies and often sits herself down on the potty we have in the bathroom without prompting. I guess when they have an older sibling to watch and learn from it makes a real difference.

[Fuschia]

WE tried with son no 1 at 2 1/2, complete failure, it was summer so w eeft nappy of and he just pooed and weed on the floor... but at 2 3/4 he got the idea and did it all in a week.. not generally a GF fan but that approach does work... plus chocolate buttons!

[iaineasy]

.PLEASE DO NOT READ ANY BOOKS AS EVERY CHILD IS DIFFERENT AND YOUR CHILD WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN HE/SHE IS READY OR YOU CAN DO IS TRY AT DIFFERENT TIMES - THEY REALLY ARE A WASTE OF MONEY!!!!!.

-----------------------------------------

Surely the knowledge and experience of others is invaluable and reading books is a fine way of getting that!

hugs as ever

edited for being a bit harsh.

[nicolemodesti]

I have just read the very easy read of Gina Ford Potty Training and have to say that it makes sense. Not a fan of books or GF, but wanted an idea of what is ahead. My boy is 16 months and will go into the bathroom to put his soft toy sheep on the toilet lid, says wee wee. He also comes into the loo with me or my partner, helping with attempting to pull our pants up!! No more 5 minutes peace!! Also is starting to let me know when he has done a wee wee on the floor, during his nappy frree time before bath and will lead me to it saying wee wee so I can wipe it up. Surely it is too young to try him though? May give it until next half term holidays when I am home from school? Open to suggestions!!!!

[Fuschia]

there is a big difference bewteen knowing you have wee'd and being able to predict it

old adage is start tt at 3, end at 3

start at 2, end at 3

some truth to that i think

[nicolemodesti]

So is 18 months too young as other friends have, with success? How do you know if when they hold their nappy and say wee that they are not predicting?

[Pickle]

It's worth a try I guess, no harm in giving it a go! I would be surprised if an 18 month old managed to potty train (although in the "old days" it was common - but my Mum says it was because she spent half her day sitting us on a potty because that's what they were told to do by the Plunket Nurses - similar to health visitors).

Good luck x

[Fuschia]

nicolemodesti Wrote:

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> So is 18 months too young as other friends have,

> with success?

ime, children who "train" so young aren't really trained, their mums have to continually monitor them and rush them to the potty... i'm sure there are exceptions, but in my mind, doing it so young just creates a lot of work!

[Mellors]

Just to say I also agree on waiting until they are ready rather than trying to force it. I tried with my boy at just over 2 (in a panic because all the other mums seemed to be getting on with it). After a day spent scrubbing the floors he went straight back in nappies!

Tried again a couple of months later and we had it cracked within a couple of days (with the odd accident, but I was confident to take him out etc as he owuld nearly always tell me when he needed to go).

I really believe they are all ready at different times, and there is no point persevering and making more work for yourself if it they arent ready yet.

One thing I did do, on advice from other mums with grown up children, is just ditch the daytime nappies completely. It seems to dragh it out and confuse them if you have them out of nappies, then in nappies when they go out/for naps, then back out of nappies. We got rid of them together completely, and barring a wet bed on the first naptime, it seemed to work.

[nicolemodesti]

Pickle,know what you mean as my mum and mum in law say the same thing!! I am not in a rush but it is interesting to see the way a child develops and begins to associates actions and words.

Fuschia, I am also sure there are exceptions but I also realise that each child is different. As I teach full time and as you say 'it creates alot of work' by monitoring it may be that I will see how he is upon reaching 2 in my long Summer holidays.

[Fuschia]

Yes, we junked nappies the day after he did his first poo/wee in the loo.... and had few accidents, so the time was obviously right.

Not lookong fwd to toilet training twins. Hopefully can do them one at a time. But the thought of hanging around public loos with one toddler on the loo and another digging in the sanibin doesn't fill me with joy.

[Pickle]

Ha ha Fuschia, that's exactly the issue I've got at the moment - C needs assistance with his toileting, so in the meantime his sister is either rifling through the bin, pulling all the toilet paper out, or crawling round on the floor. I have to lock her in the cubicle with us otherwise she runs away. Horrible!!

[Fuschia]

Pickle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ha ha Fuschia, that's exactly the issue I've got

> at the moment - C needs assistance with his

> toileting, so in the meantime his sister is either

> rifling through the bin, pulling all the toilet

> paper out, or crawling round on the floor. I have

> to lock her in the cubicle with us otherwise she

> runs away. Horrible!!

:-(

Even some dsabled loos are totally rank

[The Nappy Lady]

Every child is different as others have said, but the key to potty training is that the child has to have made 3 connections/abilities:

1. Understanding/recognising the feeling of a full bladder (or need to poo) and being physically capable of holding/releasing the bladder on demand.

2. Recognising this as a prompt to go and sit on a potty/toilet

3. Recognising/understand the feeling of passing urine (or poo) and the resulting wetness, or worse(!) either in their pants (hopefully not) or what they see in the potty as the result of the previous 2 points!

If you try to potty train too soon they are simply not physically capable of point 1 (small babies wee little and often, toddlers start to do what you could call 'power wees' - basically doing what we do - holding the wee 'til the bladder is full, then releasing in one big stream. You may particularly notice this if your toddler gets up in the morning, has a lot to drink and then you have to change their nappy very soon because it fills up much quicker than nappies during the rest of the day.

Points 1 and 3 are often delayed these days due to the fact that disposables keep children so dry, that they just don't feel wet, and therefore take longer to make the necessary connections. It is totally logical if you think about it. That is why some (but not all) children in cloth nappies potty train earlier. Whilst on this subject, don't be under pressure from parents, in-laws or grandma's about when you potty train - in the past cloth was of course more common, and back then Mum's were more often at home with baby full time so were able to spend much more time with them focussing on potty training, and keen to not be washing nappies for longer than they had to (it was much harder work back then with twin tubs etc), so potty training was generally done earlier. My Mum says in her day you would be looked down upon by other Mum's if your child was in nappies beyond 2, so a lot of them can't help how they are, they are just a result of their generation!

You can help a child in disposables to start to make the connections (if you feel they are ready) by putting a folded flannel inside their nappy so they feel the wetness more.

Some children just cannot be bothered to potty train, they totally get it, but will resist no matter what bribes you try - I know a Mum with 3 children, the first 2 were out of nappies at 2, the 3rd child took another year-and-a-bit, one day she'd be dry, the next she'd be wet again - pure a simply a case of her knowing, but not caring about being clean - nightmare! She would tell her Mum "I can't be bothered to use the toilet Mummy!"

My first daughter was pretty reliably potty trained at 20 months, in that she would be at home/childminders without a nappy on much of the time and would use a potty, but I was not ready at all! The thought of going out without a nappy on in the car, or in the queue at Sainsbury's etc is scary! But at 25 months old we went on holiday and she was 100% out of nappies by day in 2 days, as easy at that - I was amazed, but if they are ready it really is that easy. However, she was (and still is) a very heavy sleeper so getting her out of night nappies took another 18 months! Both my Mum and my MIL were convinced they could get her dry at night, but no one managed it, it just happened slowly, when the time was right for her.

I have no idea how it will go with our 2nd, but I'm hoping that by this time next year, when she will be just over 2 she will be done with nappies.....we shall see!

As a starting point I would have a potty in the bathroom (from around 18 months old) and encourage your child to sit on it (even with nappy and even clothes on) whilst you use the toilet - and also, grim as it is - talk about why you are using the toilet, what you are doing on it - even show them. Remember children learn by copying, and generally want to please you/make you happy. Give them lots of praise any time they sit on the potty, and at bath time if they are toddling around naked and sit on it, maybe even do something in it, even more so, go wild, act like it is the most amazing thing they have ever done! I think that once they start to see you getting all excited about them using the potty there is a good chance they will want to do it again. Then you've already laid some groundwork for when you finally decide to 'go for it'

Hope this helps.

Molly

[ryedalema]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm a bit confused as to whether to purchase Lady GF though. Think i'll continue trying without first and see where that takes us. Some have said that having no knickers on helps (at home of course) as knickers makes them feel like they have a nappy on. Any opinions/advice on that at all?

[Pickle]

We put our little boy in pants straight away - made a big deal of it, he chose them at the shop (Bob the Builder and Thomas, of course!), we always adopted the "we don't want wet big boy pants do we?" approach and it seemed to work.

Happy to lend you my copy of GF if you decide you want a read.

[The Nappy Lady]

I think some are against the 'no pants' at home thing because it can then be hard to get them dry in pants/clothes. However, we went pants free at home (at that age it was hard to keep pants on my daughter, plus it was Spring/Summer!!!), and it didn't cause us any problems.

Good luck, hope it goes well.

Molly

[sillywoman]

Ah, we did the opposite to Pickle. We did no pants at all as the sensation of having something holding his bits in was too much like a nappy. With no pants everything was that much free-er so he was more aware of his willy, what it needed to do, & when it needed to do it (if you see what I mean). We were done and dusted in a few days - though night times took much longer. I also tried GF, some bits were useful, but I wouldn't spend money on the book if you can borrow it.

This of course was with son number 3 (of 4 children), you probably don't want to hear the uninspiring story of son 1's potty training. Suffice to say that his first 18 months at school he had to have spare clothes available each day - he didn't seem to care either. Eeeeuugh, I shiver at the memory. He's fine now, I hasten to add!!

[laurac]

Just wanted to re-iterate what lots of people are saying about waiting till they (tell you they) are ready - it is so much easier. For months on end I had potties all over the house, nappy free days, had bought my daughter lots of pants etc. but she just wasn't interested. When she reached 31 months she just told me one day she wanted to wear pants and we just went with it - she didn't wear a nappy again and we had very few accidents. Four months on she is pretty much dry at the night time too and I'm amazed at how painless it has been (unlike most of the other 'stages' we have been through!). I know I felt a ridiculous pressure to get on with it (my mum kept telling me how me and my sisters were 'trained' at one) but next time I am definitely going to be much more relaxed!

[charlottekb]

This is such a helpful thread. Thanks everyone. Its good to know that there will come a time when my LO is ready and that he will let me know. I feel as though I am forcing it at the moment, even though he fully understands what I am trying to do. I have a starchart and everytime he sits on the loo he gets a sticker - but its running out of steam to be honest after only 4 days! I will keep gently talking about it and wait til he shows some more signs of being up for it.

Thanks again x