Front Garden Parking

[TheCat]

In another example of the trend for front garden conversions to car parks, a neighbour a few doors along our street has done just this.

However, no dropped Kerb has been put in. I'm assuming either it hasn't been done yet (garden has been converted for nearly Two months) or they haven't bothered applying.

Have a few questions for the collective forum wisdom...

Do near neighbours get notification of a dropped kerb application?

Can I advise them that without one they are not allowed to continue to mount the kerb and park in their front yard?

If they do continue to do so, then I am within my rights to park them in?

I suspect I know the answer to these, but want to be sure of myself before having a neighbourly 'chat'....

[DirtyBox]

I don't think you get notified, I have never been and neighbours on both sides have had it done.

Techniclly they are not allowed to cross the pavement - I had a flat once that had parking but no dropped kerb and the council threatened to place a bollard in front of the parking spot to stopp me using it, luckily i sold the flat before it got to that.

Again, yes, unless it's got restrictions.

BUT.....why do you care so much or do you just like picking fights and sticking your nose in?

[intexasatthe moment]

Maybe TheCat has aesthetic or environmental concerns . Or possibly a concern that the pavement will be damaged as it's not designed ,as a crossover is ,for driving over .Perish the thought .

It would be interesting to know what the position is now re double yellow lines either side of new dropped kerbs.

James Barber has led me to believe that the new policy of installing these 2 metres to either side has been dropped when the crossover is in a side/minor road .But still holds for roads like Barry Rd .In which case I believe there is the opportunity for neighbours to comment .

And yes TheCat I believe you can park in front of your neighbours forecourt/garden .

[edhistory]

DirtyBox Wrote:

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> Techniclly they are not allowed to cross the

> pavement

Unless you have preserved legal rights.

[Siduhe]

It would definitely be worth speaking to your neighbours - I know ours applied to have a drop kerb put in over a year ago and they are still waiting for the application to be heard because of the issues around whether drop kerbs in Southwark need to have yellow lines either side of them and if so for how long (length), which has apparently led to a huge backlog in applications. They have given up waiting and do drive across the kerb but I have some sympathy for that given the length of time. We're lucky not to have too much parking pressure on our street and so people generally do leave the space free for them to get in and out.

[TheCat]

DirtyBox Wrote:

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> I don't think you get notified, I have never been

> and neighbours on both sides have had it done.

> Techniclly they are not allowed to cross the

> pavement - I had a flat once that had parking but

> no dropped kerb and the council threatened to

> place a bollard in front of the parking spot to

> stopp me using it, luckily i sold the flat before

> it got to that.

> Again, yes, unless it's got restrictions.

>

> BUT.....why do you care so much or do you just

> like picking fights and sticking your nose in?

Perhaps im just nosey, or perhaps I care because its difficult to park on our road sometimes. And, perhaps im a pedant, but if the proper process hasnt been adhered to, then its not a fair situation for other residents of the street. Perhaps hyperbole, but if we dont have a process, whats to stop anyone just mounting the kerb and park on the footpath?

[DirtyBox]

I'm all for following the process but they are parking in their front garden not on the pavement and if they didn't use it until the kerb was dropped they would be parking in front of it so you would still not have that space. In fact it sounds like you are in a better position at the moment if the council will add double yellows either side when it does get dropped.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I hate this trend for concreting front gardens. It really does change the character of a street / neighbourhood.

[Jeremy]

I have no problem with creating driveways, as long as appropriate drainage is put in. If the future of motoring is electric vehicles, then we'll need somewhere to charge the things up...

[Earl Aelfheah]

I think it's a shame. As a pedestrian, it feels like you're being squeezed on both sides - it removes the feeling of separation between the road and the pavement.

[intexasatthe moment]

Jeremy - that's a point about electric cars ,but not necessary to have access to private forecourt .Some kerbside provision already exists for charging electric cars .I'd vote for extending this as opposed to getting rid of front gardens.

[James Barber]

Dropped kerbs need planning permission. The planning permission process involves posting a notice on lampposts only these days - letters to neighbours by planning officers generally no longer happen. Neighbours can object to planning applications.

You can check via the Southark Council website if planning permission has been applied for.

They also need a Traffic Management Order - these are decided at your community council by local councillors. Again you can object to these.

At the last Dulwich Community Council we had a proposal for 3 new dropped kerbs for front garden parking (3 different homes). Due to the current administrations rules about double yellow lines it would have meant the removal of 12 parking spaces on Lordship Lane so we felt compelled to reject the proposals.

It sounds like this neighbour has jumped the gun and planning enforcement could be called.

[Charles Notice]

If you are going to lose 12 parking spaces for 3 cars there is something wrong with the planning regulations.

If Cllrs are anti car pro bike you don't have a chance of common sense being applied

[Aristide]

I think you might be wrong here James, this the advice from your planning department

'The proposal include extending the adjacent dropped kerb (crossover} to allow

off-street parking. Works proposed do not require planning permission as it benefits

from permitted development rights under The Town and Country Planning (General

Permitted Development) Order 1995, SCHEDULE 2, PART 2 MINOR OPERATIONS,

Class B. Permitted development: "The formation, laying out and construction of a

means of access to a highway which is not a trunk road or a classified road, where

that access is required in connection with development permitted by any Class in this

Schedule (other than by Class A of this Part)".'

[TheCat]

James...thanks for your response. Looking at the register of planning applications on the Southwark website, I can't see any dropped kerb applications in my street for the last few years, and I know the have been a few put in. Could you indicate where I can check this, as I can see all other planning applications, but not dropped kerb.....

[Charles Notice]

Are you going to declare war on your neighbours?

Don't think I would like you living near me

[TheCat]

Charles Notice Wrote:

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> Are you going to declare war on your neighbours?

>

> Don't think I would like you living near me

Maybe I do.....

[DirtyBox]

You only need planning permission for a classified road, Lordship Lane would definitely be classified but a residential street probably isn't.

[Jennys]

What will happen once all or nearly all the houses in a road have front garden parking and dropped kerbs. Where do tradespeople, delivery vans or friends park when they visit? I am surprised the Council allows front garden parking at all, especially when the car parked there is often longer than the garden and juts out into the pavement area. Is this allowed I wonder. Do regulations state that the front garden parking area must allow rain to drain away and if so is this ruling enforced? Lots of front gardens seem to be paved or concreted over completely.

[Pocket]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/three-times-as-many-front-gardens-completely-paved-as-a-decade-ago-says-royal-horticultural-society-10256660.html

? as well as a means of helping our already diminishing wildlife here in London disappear even faster.

[rupert james]

How would it be if roads were CPZ and residents were issued with free parking permits.

Suspect that off road parking would not be an issue.

Visitors could be offered supplementary residents permits with time clock which would also be attached to the main permit.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Jennys Wrote:

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> What will happen once all or nearly all the houses

> in a road have front garden parking and dropped

> kerbs. Where do tradespeople, delivery vans or

> friends park when they visit? I am surprised the

> Council allows front garden parking at all,

> especially when the car parked there is often

> longer than the garden and juts out into the

> pavement area. Is this allowed I wonder. Do

> regulations state that the front garden parking

> area must allow rain to drain away and if so is

> this ruling enforced? Lots of front gardens seem

> to be paved or concreted over completely.

I totally agree with this. I don't get why it's allowed - effectively it's transferring ownership of the bit of street outside a house to a private individual. It's taking away public space, limiting it's use to a single individual. It also make the environment for pedestrians much more precarious / unwelcoming. it's really not very civic minded.

[spider69]

What is the difference now?

Cars parked bumper to bumper and sometimes never moving for days,months or weeks/ So the street has effectively transferred ownership outside a house to a private individual already.

[TheCat]

if we all claimed ownership of the kerbside in front of our house, then why stop at a dropped kerb? Why can't I plant some trees or erect a shed? The outcome is the same, one less parking space for everyone else in the street...

[Townleygreen]

Jennys Wrote:

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> What will happen once all or nearly all the houses

> in a road have front garden parking and dropped

> kerbs. Where do tradespeople, delivery vans or

> friends park when they visit?

Well I have a dropped curve and parking on my drive, and random tradespeople are ALWAYS parking in front of my drive. I guess if they feel they've got to deliver something, or are too lazy to walk ten meters or whatever, then they'll do that. If I need access I have to ask the buggers to move.