Gritting

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I did try phoning. My call was 'accepted' after I'd selected the correct number and then I was left hanging on with only background chatting coming down the phone. V. frustrating. Have emailed, but don't expect anyone will pick it up tonight.

[James Barber]

I've contacted the Southwark Council manager responsible for the gritting. He told me that the Met Office weather forecast has proven wrong and the snow arrive much earlier than forecast - hence the gritting was completed in time.

He did assure me that all the gritter lorries are out and will be all night.

That the 40 manually propelled gritters (useful for pavements etc) have been use and he expects to have all 80 out in use tomorrow.

He also explained that he will be calling of up to 500 staff to help get things moving.

Apparently this afternoon everyone wqas due to start worknig on the 3rd level priority streets when the snow arrived.

Hope this explains what has and is going on.

[themaninblack]

To be fair I saw them gritting the top of Dunstans Road this afternoon before the snow arrived. The only problem is the gritter was travelling at about 30 mph. The faster they go the less grit coverage you get. On a hill like that they should be dumping more than the regular amount to start with. Little point in driving around gritting roads if you don't give tham a decent covering!

[EDOldie]

Had to drive over to (and back from) Clapham tonight. Utter chaos on the roads, Lambeth, Wandsworth and Southwark. I would say not one borough has had the gritters out and even if the did they would not be able to get anywhere and would therefore be ineffective.

Our road never sees a gritter (well once in about 1976, or was it '63?). The roads are a bit of a worry but it's the pavements that get me they are soooo treacherous. It's a wonder the don't have an A & E at East Dulwich Hospital.

[Siduhe]

A lot of the problems seemed to be bus related. Two buses broken down on the steep bit of Forest Hill Road caused a lot of the problems that side of LL - smelled a lot like one of them had a burnt out clutch from tackling the ice and failing. Same problem at Elephant and Castle and OKR (broken down buses).

[easyman]

Quite simply - regardless of priority - not enough is being done by the teams that are supposed to deal with this to get out there gritting. Cold and damp weather has been forecast for days - all roads should have been gritted in readiness and re-gritted when and where necessary.

The idea of a local stash of grit that residents could use in need seems pretty basic good sense - especially where they are not going to come and grit at all.

After all this time is this really still too much to ask?

[ruffers]

Heard quite an interesting piece on the radio earlier about it not just being a matter of chucking a load of grit out - they take decisions based on what kind of grit, if it's going to rain later and wash it away etc. So yes, more grit would be nice but I kinda trust that 'they' know more about it than me.

[dbboy]

So is the excuse now, it's the "wrong" type of grit?

[womanofdulwich]

Instead of a pr newsletter from the council I think a 1kg bag of grit ( like a bag of sugar) delivered every November to each householder would be a good idea. If they sold them in sainsburys next to de icer I would but one -

[Applespider]

My extended family live in Scotland - on a steep part of road. At the end of their road (and several others in the vicinity), they have grit/salt bins which are available for the public to use. While not everyone in their road bothers, enough do that it makes walking far less hazardous.

I did see one of those bins yesterday near Red Post Hill (while sitting on a P4) but it had a big COSSH sign on it for authorised use only.

The roads usually clear fairly quickly - it's the pavements where the ice ends up lingering and causing problems. There are large sections which were like an icerink on Monday from Thursday's snow which I do think is unacceptable - particularly in the hillier parts.

[Peckhampam]

Sorry ton rub it in but I have ventured from East Dulwich to Stockholm. It is -15 and 70 cms of snow and everything is running perfectly!!

[TonyQuinn]

Everyone please stop moaning. I ended up walking from Denmark Hill up towards library yesterday evening and was amazed at the standstill on the roads, the chaos that had been wrought by a couple of inches of snow. But I have to tip my hat to the advances made overnight. Most of the main roads are clear. Obviously, the little roads are icey and problematic but I think the council has done as much as it could, and certainly has done more than it did in February.

[iamyamyam]

Picking up on sidhues message abou the broken down buses on forest hill road last night. I was surprised to see that the bus drivers were helping other drivers push their cars up the hill. Well done bus crews! loved the good natured joshing from some pedestrians ( Show him your oyster card etc)

[mockney piers]

God it makes want to lsoe the will to live reading threads like this.

Stockholm functions because it always snows, regularly plummets to -17 and their infrastrcture is geared up for it.

We have maybe two days in London in a bad year.

The grit buckets are probably gone because they cost money to keep filled and maintain and council tax payers will more regularly bleat about how everything else is wrong, why do they pay their taxes etc etc and our councillors have prioritised the money for other matters.

Grin and bear it, leave for work earlier, do sensible things like sturdy walking boots or even chains on your tires and like Nero suggests, go out wih some grit yourself, in a burst of civicmindedness.

It'll all be over by Christmas!!

[Applespider]

I think the majority of us do grin and bear it - but hey, it's human nature to spread our tale of woe and valour in the face of adversity. I gave my staff snow days since it is unusual in London and we're not that geared up for it and I'd be astonished if my street's pavement was ever cleared within 72 hours of a snowfall. But once we're beyond that and the forecast is still for freezing weather so the ice isn't going to clear, then I don't think it's that unreasonable to expect my council to have got to the those streets since I believe 'steep' is a priority (even if it's relatively low on the list).

But overall, I think we deal with the aftermaths with fairly good humour. I loved the story today about the 100 people who spent the night in John Lewis in the bed department.

[mockney piers]

I totally agree applespider, that's much more like the Christmas spirit I'd like to see.

I'm all for grumbling, nothing wrong with that, it's the barely disguised contemptible anger that evrything in the world isn't perfect that winds me up. It's the equivalent of people jabbing a policeman and saying "I page your wages why aren't you out catching criminals".

Anyhoo most of it's gone now so all's well that ends well.

[PeckhamRose]

They've not gritted on the roads around Peckham Rye (east side) nor the areas where the elderly folk live.

Now, where's that reference number I was given by the Environment Department.

[jctg]

From tonight's C4 News Snowmail. I couldn't agree more!

"- Wanging on and on about how it doesn't happen in Sweden/Canada/ USA etc is about as relevant as hamster-sexing because it happens to these places every year - totally different climate, different snow, different preparations.

- You have to prepare by law - try driving in Germany without winter tyres and see what a legal mess you are in when you have a crash.

- The UK is a north Atlantic island caught between the temperate Gulf stream and savage easterly airflow from a trading estate just outside Moscow. A fraction of a degree shift can decide between horrid wet night and winter wonderland.

- No country in the world grits all its roads - nor ever has.

- Because you have not personally seen a gritter/snowplough - does not mean county councils have not been treating major roads round the clock for days on end.

So, that said, do you want your large council tax bill spent on gritters and snow ploughs - which will be used a few nights and days every year, or five years, or a decade in many parts of the UK? Or should the money go on hospitals, schools etc?"

If I overhear one more person saying "I don't understand this country, all it takes is just a little bit of snow etc etc..." I'll bloody strangle them.

[ruffers]

I look forward to a Daily Mail front page scandal about millions spent by councils (Labour mostly at a guess) on snow ploughs and salt which stand IDLE!! 363 days a year.

[ruffers]

And a fantastic bit on the news now about ungritted pavement featuring sample people who are struggling to walk on the ice. Mostly as far as I can see by walking in smooth leather soled shoes. Jeez, take a bit of responsibility people.

[EDKiwi]

Not to mention in countries where snowfalls are common people prepare and know how to drive in the conditions, sitting there spinning your wheels and revving the life out of your engine in first gear on non-winter tires isn't something you see in those countries. It's not all on the councils.

Just watching the news now and everyone is moaning 'why isn't my footpath clear', sure in priority areas they should be, but in some countries it's actually your responsibility to clear the footpath outside your house, I don't think any place has magically cleared roads and footpaths 24/7 in winter. Do people seriously expect the council to clear every single footpath overnight?

[jctg]

"Do people seriously expect the council to clear every single footpath overnight?"

Yes, they do.

[EDKiwi]

jctg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Do people seriously expect the council to clear

> every single footpath overnight?"

>

> Yes, they do.

Well yes I guess they do.....and there lies the problem

[EDOldie]

EDKiwi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> jctg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > "Do people seriously expect the council to

> clear

> > every single footpath overnight?"

> >

> > Yes, they do.

>

> Well yes I guess they do.....and there lies the

> problem

There are lots of street cleaners about surely when there's snow they could become pavement gritters?

[helena handbasket]

EDKiwi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not to mention in countries where snowfalls are

> common people prepare and know how to drive in the

> conditions, sitting there spinning your wheels and

> revving the life out of your engine in first gear

> on non-winter tires isn't something you see in

> those countries. It's not all on the councils.

>

> Just watching the news now and everyone is moaning

> 'why isn't my footpath clear', sure in priority

> areas they should be, but in some countries it's

> actually your responsibility to clear the footpath

> outside your house, I don't think any place has

> magically cleared roads and footpaths 24/7 in

> winter. Do people seriously expect the council to

> clear every single footpath overnight?

Yep, in many cities you are responsible for your front path and pavement in front of your property. If it is not made safe within a reasonable time, you are fined. Not to mention the fact that if someone slips and gets hurt you are held legally responsible. There is often a version of "snow angels" as well. These are people in the neighborhood who help with the pavements of those who physically can't do it themselves. Most main roads are salted or sanded and plowed to keep things moving, but residential roads generally are not, and sometimes people wake up to a foot of snow or more. Does the city come and plow? Nope, the residents of the street start digging! There is a huge amount of public participation in the process because it is NOT possible to cope otherwise. That is what I don't see happening here.

Good point about the street cleaners, of course snowier countries have vehicles that can be modified to perform different types of tasks. Even snowy cities can't afford to buy a bunch of highly specialized machines for what usually ends up being a handful of extreme days. Would it maybe be too much to ask for the government to at least ask around? See what the options are? Dealing with the weather can be expensive, yes, but I can't imagine the cost of England shutting down for a week every time it snows a bit!