Noisy buses (East Dulwich Grove)

[rgutsell]

Hi all

I was reading the edf, and was inspired by the number of whinges to add my own!

We live in East Dulwich Grove, along which the 37 bus runs, 24hrs a day, 7 days a week as far as I can work out.

The thing is, our bedroom is on the street side of the house; and you know what, those buses at 3am in the morning are REALLY NOISY!!. They sound like jets pulling away from the stop. They have no clutches (fluid transmission) AND THE ENGINES RACE (like $%%^^$?) to get going.

Whose idea was it anyway to send them all the way down the Grove, and who uses them at that time of day??

Whinge over.

R N Gutsell

[jimmy two times]

It was my idea....sorry.

[James]

You chose to live there. If you don't like it, why not move? Or get double glazing?

[Sue]

I think it's great the buses run at that time, sorry.

We don't all work 9-5 or get home by 11pm if we have an evening out.

And after all, East Dulwich Grove is a main road in London, not a little side street in the country.

[Applespider]

If the bus route was there and running through the night when you moved in, then I've got little sympathy. It's one reason that I didn't put an offer in on an otherwise ideal flat since there was a night bus stop just outside which I reckoned would be noisy.

You could drop a line to the bus company and ask them to check their buses are properly maintained but I suspect any bus is going to sound noisy at that time of night when there's so little other background noise aroun.

[jaybee82]

Are you sure you're not a little bitter that you're not coming home on one of those buses at 3am??

[Burbage]

If they're the old B7TL, same as the 176, then they're noisy. About the same as an angle grinder, or ten overflying aircraft.

The residents of Kensington and Westminster (where they've been declared unacceptable by the council), have complained a lot, and TfL has ordered a bit of a tinker on some of the routes, but not all have been modified. Unfortunately, the buses passed their TfL noise tests, so TfL can't ban then without paying the operators lots of money, despite them exceeding the relevant EU limits. The tests have since been updated, so bus makers can't simply disconnect the cooling fans to pass them, but that's been little consolation for the past ten years.

The B7TLs are, however, being phased out, and should be off the streets by 2040 or thereabouts. But in the meantime we have to live with them. One way of doing that is to remember that, thanks to a bewildered and incompetent management, some hugely expensive plutocrat-buttering wheezes, and the unaccountable loss of ?3bn of taxpayers' money, buses will soon be the only transport left in this quarter of London, and we should be grateful for their irritating rumble.

[SteveT]

I have often wondered why the buses and the dustcarts are soooo noisey, as there is plenty of space to add some insulation to dampen down said noise.

[easyman]

The drivers could of course drive more considerately (pull away slowly woudl make a difference I would think), and drive as though they were taking care of the people who pay for them - the passengers of which many are residents on the routes...

[rgutsell]

Hi all

The bus route was not running past us when we moved in. The route was changed a year or so ago; the buses ceased turning into Melbourne Grove (from Brixton) and instead carried directly onto Lordship Lane, where they then struggle to make the left turn into Lordship Lane. Additionaly, the kerbside was built out to enable the buses to stop without turning in ( and so they now stop all following traffic). The road (East Dulwich Grove) is actually quite narrow, and buses are about 30' from all of the rooms on the street side of the houses. Quite close.

I am pro buses by the way. But I am also a PCV and HCV holder, and I know that they don't have to be so noisy. I've driven fully loaded artic's with monster engines...and they were quieter. (Unless my memory has faded as it was some years ago!!)

...and by the way we have secondary glazing too!

R N Gutsell

[Izodia]

Ah. You must have moved in during the phase when the buses were diverted down Melbourne Grove due to roadworks. Unfortunately, going right to the end of East Dulwich Grove and turning left onto Lordship Lane is the original route.

[intexasatthe moment]

Original route was via Melbourne Grove.

[PeckhamRose]

Change the room your bedroom is currently, to one at the back.

Use industrial strength motorcycling earplugs but do remember to clean them regularly to prevent ear infections.

Go out for some nights out to Clapham or Brixton or Putney and be grateful for the bus home.

If - while on the bus - you think it is very noisy (get off at the stop PAST your house so you know) - ask the driver why he drove so noisily and/or write to TfL as above (Kensington post) and explain your thoughts to them.

Best wishes.

[Izodia]

That's interesting to know. But certainly for the past few years, it's been going down East Dulwich Grove. When rngutsell moved in a year or so ago, they were just using it as a diversion.

[lorraineliyanage]

I regularly use the 37 bus and it must be the most infrequent bus ever, at best there are 3 an hour, usually only 2. Earplugs are the way to go, I live on Barry Road, with the very frequent 12 and not so frequent 197 charging up and down 24 hours a day, it's the only way to get some sleep!

[Sue]

As InTexas says, the original 37 route was down Melbourne Grove.

I imagine the route was changed because of the congestion caused by a large bus coming down such a relatively narrow two-way street with parked cars.

Im can't understand the references to the infrequency of the 37, I use it fairly often and have never had to wait a really long time for one.

[Izodia]

Well you learn something new everyday.

I think whilst they used Melbourne Grove again during the diversion, there were additional parking restrictions, so you're probably right as to why it moved from there originally.

[KalamityKel]

Residents also complained of the damage done to parked cars in Melbourne Grove which is quite a lot narrower than ED Grove.

[James Barber]

Hi Burbage,

Amazing post.

I'm surprised to find myself wanting more information.

I've googled B7TL to find it's a Volvo bus.

Do you know what bus types provide East Dulwich night buses 12, 37 and 176 and how I could find out their official noise ratings and where would I find TfL and EU noise limits?

I found this Volvo B7TL bus info.

[Burbage]

The 176 is usually a B7TL. The 12, I thought was bendy and the 37 is an Enviro400 (a newer and slightly quieter cousin of the B7TL).

Re: chapter and verse:

Back in 2006, TfL in written answers (p.65, middle) to the specific complaint of the noisy Volvos, suggested that all buses would be modified, and they all met EU specifications

But, in mid 2007, in reponse to a similar question, the then mayor replied that modifications were being made, and TfL's specifications tighted up to avoid this problem in future.

In October 2007, however, TfL responsed to an individual complaint.

The response (assuming it's genuine) made it clear that modifications had been only made to some buses, were not likely to extend to the whole fleet and that the buses, even after modification, fell foul of EU regulations.

Furthermore, this oddly transparent confession also pointed out that the TfL noise tests didn't count 'ancillary noise' and, in the case of the Volvos, ancillary noise was chosen to mean the racket the cooling fans make. Thus a good part, if not most, of the noise the buses make was deemed irrelevant for reasons which both Volvo and TfL are unlikely to elucidate.

And that, as far as I can tell, is where the matter rests. Judging by Westminster's reponse (bottom of p.2) of to the Mayor's noise consultation earlier this year, progress is, at best, static.

[EDKiwi]

The 12 is a bendy-bus 24/7 (it stops outside my house), not too noisy, just tends to rattle the house slighty when they rumble past in the middle of the night.

[rgutsell]

Hi all

Good post burbage! I am not alone in my experience then!

[James Barber]

Hi rgutsell,

Trying to summarise this.

You live on East Dulwich Grove bus route 37 where Trident 2.2/Enviro400 buses are used. I've not found anything googled that these present a particular noise problems.

The Volvo B7TL buses used on 176 bus route do seem to have a noise issue that even after being modified to reduce fan noise down from 92dB(A) to 85dB(A) but they don't use East Dulwich Grove.

But I think you've raised an important pan London problem. The noise limits for buses may be appropriate for day time use where lots of other noises around and buses don't stand out so much. But for night bus use these noise limits seems entirely unreasonable.

Noise limits set at 84dB(A) are noisier than an alarm clock which is 80dB(A). You can't have the equivalent of alarms clocks going of throughout the night and not be driven to the edge.

On this basis I've asked GLA member Caroline Pidgeon who chairs the Greater London Authorities TRansport Committee this year to ask whether TfL accept that 84dB(A) is an unreasonable noise limit for buses operating in the dead of night and when will bus service procurement result in quieter hybrid bus operation at night time.

[rgutsell]

Hi JBarber

Thanks for that. I'd be interested in the response.

[James Barber]

Hi rgutsell,

GLA Assembly Member Caroline Pidgeon has agreed to ask a question at the next GLA assembly in January.

Clearly noisy night buses with the noise standards allowed by TfL being louder than an alarm clock going is a pan London wide issue.