Harris Academy (new boys school for East Dulwich)

[Cuthbert Dibble]

Small may well be beautiful but the number of local parents tearing their hair out over secondary school places is big, and getting bigger. Charter is way over subscribed, more and more are having to look at Lambeth, Lewisham and further afield - the problem is getting worse each year.

In my opinion a secondary school of 950 pupils isn't actually that huge - there were 1200 at mine and schools of a thousand pupils or more are common. Of course more outdoor space would be lovely but the site can't be magically expanded. Why four storeys? Well maybe that's the most efficient use of space.

And despite statements to the contrary I maintain there are loads of Nimby attitudes on display on the forum. Those against the plans seem to have a variety of reasons as to why they are A Bad Thing. Size, the possibility Piermont Green may be concreted over to provide a "drop off point" (?), modern architecture next to Victorian terraces, the lack of outdoor space and the horror that parts of Peckham Rye might actually be used for sports, traffic on Northcross Road (???), someone has even provided a handy cut out and keep worst-case scenario guide as to the dreadful things that might happen....

That is Nimbyism if ever I saw it.

You seem to be saying - we're not Nimbys, we want a school, but it has to be the type of building we like and it has to house the number of pupils we find acceptable (and you can't even seem to agree on that)

The building of a school is never going to be an ongoing collaboration between council and local community in which the latter chip in suggestions for architectural styles, class sizes etc. Nothing would ever get done.

It's a state school which the local community needs and has been campaigning for for years. Its got to be big because of the growing number of local children. Yes it will have an impact on the surrounding area, yes some views will be spoilt and were this a Tescos or a block of flats - the social need for which are practically non-existent - then I would agree with your moans about the consultation process.

It's not, so I don't.

[Keef]

Just to clarify, I've not changed my opinion about the plans for the building, I say go ahead. I just think a few less pupils indide it would be better.

[Ko]

> BigDad Wrote:>

> > Anyway - if its supposed to be a SPORTS

> > academy, where are the SPORTS facilities?

> buggie Wrote:

> I stated in my post that the girls school is a

> sports academy - not aware of the proposed boys

> academy being a sports academy too.

Some facts (which are always useful):

The girls school, Waverley, has

- an indoor 100m swimming pool

- a running track

- flood-lit all-weather sports pitches for tennis, hockey, basketball, football etc

- fitness suite with a modern gym

- indoor full-sized sports hall for indoor football, basketball, badminton etc

- a dance studio

It would be good to know if there are any plans to share these facilities.

[Ko]

Another interesting few statements on the Waverley website:

"Reaching out

Waverley is at the centre of a plan to link Southwark?s secondary schools with their nearby primary schools. We also encourage other local schools, clubs and societies to make use of our superb new sports hall, fitness suite and dance studio. Our superb facilities are also open to the public after school, at weekends and during school holidays.

Sport at Waverley

In recent years more than ?10 million has been invested in our buildings and facilities, including new outdoor courts, a large sports hall, fitness suite and dance suite. We also have our own swimming pool."

There is already the mindset that some facilities should be shared. My secondary school shared facilities with a school across the road from us, even though the other school was a convent girls-only school - this didn't stop them sharing facilities with our mixed-sex school. We even had shared lessons to widen the subjects available to pupils from both schools.

[Tom]

I'm really happy to see a general positive approach to this thread. I can't belive that anyone would have concerns about an old trashed school building being turned into - a school..! Anyone would think they are proposing to put a hostel for pervs, rapists, paedos and the like there from some of the posts. Also - I would love to see kids using the park daily - exercise I hear is rather good for them.

Quite what Macroban has in mind when he / she talks about dissafected ED residents is very interesting. Most seem to draw the line at venting steam on this forum - suggesting we would consider smashing up school facilities that most of our friends / neighbours children go to is to be quite honest - totally ludicrous. Maybe you would consider it - the rest of us wouldn't.

Prat.

[Ko]

I've just copied this from a link on another thread (there's different bits about this topic in 3 different threads!)

"Following the 5th June consultation another leaflet has been dropped to the doors by the usual 4 residents of Upland Rd.

It reads:

Harris Boys Academy

Following the appalling ?consultation? meeting on Tuesday evening we are proposing to meet up to plan how to take our concerns forward.

This is VERY URGENT given the short timescales. Submissions to the planners by 15th June.

The main concern appear to be:

Size of school 900+ boys ( original school size 350 girls )

Traffic ? entrance in Friern Rd ? up to 100 staff.

Size, design, position of building:

- 4 storeys high+

- Right up against the end of our gardens.

Meeting Sunday 10th June

East Dulwich Community Centre

Darrell Road SE22 6pm-7.30pm

Please come along and give your support !"

From this there appears to be a major concern about the impact on immediate residents. E.g. traffic, buildings right up to the end of their gardens. Yes, the impact on the immediate residents has to be considered and there has to be consultation.

My personal opinion is that provision of education is more important than, for example, worries re increased traffic. Yes the latter does need to be considered. However, in making any decisions about the school, I would like to see the most relevant influencing factor to be what is in the best interests of the children's education. We need more school places, in schools which will work and have a good chance of success, and there has to be a long-term view re educational needs.

Schools expanding on their sites is not a new thing. I went to a Victorian school that doubled its size by extensions in the 60's, 70's and 90's. The land belongs to the local authority and it is not unusual for them to built bigger schools on existing sites. Increased traffic to the area around the school has always been a long-term possibility. That's my view, but there still has to be consultation and a look at any other viable options.

Let's take a positive view on this. Its a new school which the area needs!! Let's come up with some suggestions that can be discussed with the Harris Federation. Rather than just saying 'there's no outside space', let's ask 'will they share Waverely's great sports facilities just up the road?'

[Ko]

Ok, I know I've a few posts on this subject but I read through lots of info last night and it made interesting reading!

On the Edge campaign website, one resident talks about having a smaller school site so that there is room for an on-site car park. That speaks for itself.

During any consultation, as well as considering the impact on local residents, we need to look at the impact on the whole local community and its need for a viable school.

[trinity]

Ko Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Some facts (which are always useful):

> The girls school, Waverley, has

> - an indoor 100m swimming pool

> - a running track

> - flood-lit all-weather sports pitches for tennis,

> hockey, basketball, football etc

> - fitness suite with a modern gym

> - indoor full-sized sports hall for indoor

> football, basketball, badminton etc

> - a dance studio

>

> It would be good to know if there are any plans to

> share these facilities.

Sorry Ko - I think your facts are wrong - there is no swimming pool at Waverley school - certainly not an enormous 100m one. (Olympic size pools are 50m as is the Crystal Palace pool).

Indeed I think the sports facilities at Waverley are very poor. Fitness facilities perhaps - sports facilities no. They compare badly to the facilities at some of the local private schools. So the idea of the boys' school benefitting from excellent facilities does not hold water. A bit like the non-existent swimming pool.

[DG]

A secondary school of fewer than about 800/900 pupils isn't really viable. But the two schools together, Boys and Girls, really come to a huge number!

[macroban]

If you believe the Harris Federation web-site the target is 1500 pupils.

Other sources suggest 1700.

[BigDad]

From what I've heard (not that Harris is being forthcoming and sharing their plans with the community - heavens forbid) -

There is not a plan to share facilities - some of the sixth form teachers may be shared between the sites but that appears to be all. Given that the head of the girls school voted no to it becoming co-ed, it seems to back this up If they didn't want it to be co-ed, why would they allow boys to come and have classes there - would they segregate them out?)

And what of the future - in 5 years time is it really any good having an academy thats not working? Given the commotion in the community, why are Harris not more forthcoming? They are not attending the residents meeting on Sunday which would be an opportunity for them to impress on everyone with their detailed plans as to how this would work.

[bawdy-nan]

http://www.harrisboysacademy.co.uk/

Here's a link to the school's website. There's a feedbackl form on there too.

[RobMiller]

I'll start by declaring an interest - I do live near the proposed school, but not close enough that it'll be looming over my back yard.

Cuthbert Dibble misrepresents the position of the people he is accusing of being "Nimbys". I don't buy Macroban's slippery slope scenario and certainly everyone I've spoken to (as the-e-dealer points out) is either actively in favour of a school or at the least sees it as a far better option than a Tescos or more flats.

The problem here is that Harris have not just developed their plans without making the effort to speak to their neighbours but are now actively refusing to get involved in any discussion even at this late stage - the latest news is that they've declined to come along to this afternoon's meeting to discuss their plans with locals and councillors. Anyone who actually went along to their information evening on June 5th will know that their representatives were simply taking a "that's how it's going to be" line.

If we presume that people have some right to express an interest in how their local area is developed then surely it's not unreasonable to ask for answers to questions like:

- What is the reason for having 2 sixth forms, 1 at each site? If Harris were to honour their original committment (made to local parents) to have 1 sixth form on the larger Homestall Rd site then the number of places required at the new site would be c. 750. Bingo! A 20% reduction with knock on benefits for the size of building required.

- What steps will Harris take to manage the traffic impact? The proposals presented on the 5th would embarass a GCSE student let along professional consultants such as those hired by Harris. The Planning rules can impose requirements on a developer but it wouldn't have been especially difficult for Harris to make some sensible suggestions before the application goes to Planning committee.

- Is it really necessary to demolish the existing building? Other South London developments have managed to incorporate the original buildings in creative ways.

None of this is an attempt to get in the way of what will be an important contribution to the local community. It's simply a request for Harris to take their responsibilities as a good neighbour seriously and make the effort to engage in a discussion. If I needed to do that to replace a garden fence, I don't think it's that unreasonable to expect someone building a major development to do the same.

[Amelie]

Can I suggest that those people who are unhappy with the Harris academy people for withholding information should complain to the CEO? Sometimes causing embarassment can work wonders. In the alternative you could always complain to LBS and make clear that you will take this up with the Ombudsman and the Secretary of State.

[RobMiller]

Indeed! Lots of us have written to Dr Daniel Moynihan (who heads up Harris) and to our MPs and Councillors. The meeting which Harris have decided not to attend has been arranged by the Labour Councillors in Peckham and Nunhead as an opportunity to discuss the planning issues. It's a shame that Harris don't think that it's worth attending as the local community are really keen to work through the issues with them and ensure that the final proposals work and are the best compromise (acknowledging that the school is needed and is bound to have some impact).

If the school is delayed this won't be because the local residents want to stop it happening, it will be because Harris are refusing to engage with the community.

[Amelie]

I thought that Lord Harris of Peckham was the head figure, he certainly said as much as on the Today programme earlier this week. Perhaps you should try him.

[Adam Glasser]

Regarding the Planning Application which went in last Friday 22nd to Southwark, we need the following issues discussed:

The original Expression of Interest in March 2006 called for two federated academies with 750 pupils on each site ( ie 750 boys on Lower Site on Peckham Rye and 750 Girls on Upper Site on Homestall Rd) + a 6th Form on the Upper Site.

It also pointed out the the lower site was 1.85 hectares and the upper site 5.96

Yet by the time the Planning Application went in, the proposal had changed to a 6th Form now split on two sites.

We need Harris and the architects to explain how this will work - before when the 6th Form was planned to be only on the larger site, it was still a tight squeeze, and possible unfair to the boys to cram so many on the smaller site, while the girls enjoyed much more spacious surroundings.

The current situation which adds half the 6th form to the Lower Site places even more pressure on a small area.

We really need more information from Harris and Southwark about how this Planning Application will work

[the-e-dealer]

As the father of an Autistic Son I suggest that anyone who even jokingley suggests a beating from a childs fellow pupils because he needs a lift to school deserves a thorough beating himself himself

[MadWorld74]

Did anyone got to the residents meeting yesterday at 4.30pm regarding this? It was held at the girls school on the other side of PRPark (the name escapes me)

[the-e-dealer]

Its The Harris Girls Academy _ Been reading the posts?

[Cuthbert Dibble]

"Cuthbert Dibble misrepresents the position of the people he is accusing of being "Nimbys" "

No I don't. I was reacting to what had been written here and giving examples of the variety of reasons put forward as to why the plans should be opposed, so wide ranging they struck me as examples of - yes you've guessed it.

Rob, the fact that you don't go along with Macroban's slippery slope scenario doesn't mean he didn't post it and that it wasn't part of the "anti" position on this thread.

I totally agree however that it is lame for Harris not to come along to the meeting and to put forward their views on such an important topic. They cetainly should have done so and have probably made the whole situation worse.

I can sense a boycott of Carpet Right is in the offing.

[macroban]

This Southwark Council document may provide guidance to planning considerations that may be applied to buildings on Peckham Rye (road) between Piermont Green and Friern Road.

[Ko]

trinity Wrote:

> Sorry Ko - I think your facts are wrong - there is

> no swimming pool at Waverley school - certainly

> not an enormous 100m one. (Olympic size pools are

> 50m as is the Crystal Palace pool).

>

> Indeed I think the sports facilities at Waverley

> are very poor. Fitness facilities perhaps - sports

> facilities no. They compare badly to the

> facilities at some of the local private schools.

> So the idea of the boys' school benefitting from

> excellent facilities does not hold water. A bit

> like the non-existent swimming pool.

Thanks for the info Trinity. I've been getting mine from Waverley's website and from speaking to the school directly. Is this not true? Seriously, I would like to know! :-S

I'm not sure if we can compare state school facilities with facilities at local private schools, but that's just my opinion.

I rang the school and they said they have got a swimming pool and they are currently refurbishing it. The website also says this and states it is a 100 metre pool and it looks quite large on the plan of the school. Maybe they got the size wrong on the website??

The Dec 05 Ofsted report states, "The school offers an exceptionally wide range of sports activities to other schools and organisations. The school takes full advantage of opportunities to gain external funding. Students benefit from good sources, particularly the sports facilities."

The website says, amongst other things:

"All students take part in at least two hours of physical activity each week ? from swimming and basketball to athletics, dance and gymnastics. In recent years more than ?10 million has been invested in our buildings and facilities, including new outdoor courts, a large sports hall, fitness suite and dance suite. We also have our own swimming pool."

"Sports colleges aim to raise standards of achievement in physical education and sport for all their students, leading to whole school improvement. They are focal points for promoting excellence in physical education and community sport, extending links between different schools, sports bodies and communities, and spreading good practice across a region."

"Our superb facilities could be just what you need, including a 200-seater sports hall, dance studio and outdoor tennis courts."

"Join our gym: As well as a state-of-the-art technogym, we offer a range of exercise classes, yoga, aerobics and pilates. And you can also book our brand new sports hall for badminton, five-a-side football, volleyball or basketball. Our 25 station technogym includes resistance machines and the latest cardiovascular equipment."

"Sport and fitness play a key part of school life and we offer a wide and balanced range of activities. From year 9 students make choices about their sport and fitness activities and we also offer many extra-curricular clubs including basketball, football, trampolining, athletics and rounders."

Website has a tour and you can click on the icons of the plan for more info on the facilities: http://www.hrsgraphics.com/hrs-waverley/tour.html#

Any info people could provide on this would be good.

[Ko]

We want a viable school. Its very poor of Harris to not attend local meetings.

[tomk]

Just in case anyone fancies a new job...

http://jobs.tes.co.uk/job.aspx?jobId=427163