Problems on bus with 3yo

[Ellie78]

I'm absolutely holding my hands up here: I'm in need of a communal internet hug and probably a bit of processing about what just happened. I'm still shaking actually and I think this will help me calm down, oddly. I feel really shaken by the whole thing and I can't decide why.

I was just on my way with my 3yo back from Peckham Rye park. We were on the 343 bus. Our stop is the penultimate - just before the end of the line and the bus drivers are always a little reluctant to stop there...On this occasion I press the bell twice, in plenty of time. As the bus slows I get my 3 yo to the top of the stairs and start moving down.

But he doesn't stop, he's slowed, but he's obviously thinking that the fact that there is no-one standing right beside the door means that the bell that just went was obviously fictional - or somehow a joke.

I called out to him to stop "we haven't got off the bus yet" from the stairs (at this point, I'm not stressed, I just think he's - I called again (twice) - but he's either not hearing me or not listening because he keeps going, getting faster. At that point I'm finding it really difficult to stay standing, with a 3yo and a scooter in tow - I shout louder, and I am SHOUTING now, mainly because I need him to stop to ensure we don't fall down the stairs.

I'm getting the teenagers on the bus shouting at me, telling me to shut up - even though I think it's obvious that a parent with a child who is half way down the stairs is obviously going to shout to the driver to ask them to stop.

The bus driver obviously does hear me now, because he stops - and starts shouting at me - accusing me of trying to get off the bus at a place there isn't a stop (he's stopped a few meters down from the bus stop he didn't stop at). I lose it at that point and I get off the bus with a "And I"m reporting you" - which I certainly am not proud of, but I was so anxious about the safety aspect, and - yes - angry at him not for stopping in the first place - to then be accused of trying to invent a stop and do something 'against the rules' was the last straw. As I get off the bus, there are teenagers, still shouting at me, and I see two filming me on their phones.

Is the fact that I'm really upset - like, seriously upset - about this weird? I've reported it to tfl, because there is a definite safety issue here, but to be honest, I feel almost like I've been assaulted. It's not just the bus driver issue that shook me up - but the hyena parade of phone wielding teenagers has really, really got under my skin.

Unfortunately, I think it's going to be some time before I take my 3yo on the top of a bus. Shame - he loves it.

[edanna]

It sounds like a really stressful experience, which unfortunately happened in the presence of a bunch of people who have no idea how difficult it is to get a small child down from the top deck of a moving bus. I would have been angry too. Ultimately you need to vent your anger and let it go. I know what it's like to be furious about something like this and feel unable to calm down from it. But you will. Deep breaths!

[Sooz]

Can't see the driver's safety issue tbh - if you stood up before the bus has come to a complete stop, then it's six of one/ half dozen of the other.

Sh*tty bus journeys always seem to happen to me too when with the kids, so I do feel for you. It'll be believe better in the morning!

[nickysydenham]

I do feel for you, but what I would do to avoid this is walk down the stairs with child and baggage at the previous stop when the bus is stationary, so that you then you press the bell you are standing near the doors ready to get off at the next stop. This obviously doesn't work so well if the bus does not stop at the preceding stop, in which case I would slowly go downstairs whilst bus is moving. Hope this thought helps! After all, it is fun going on the top deck when your children no longer need a buggy🙂.

[Belle]

That sounds horrible - a real double whammy, I would be feeling exactly the same way. I often find that bit before getting off if on the top with my 4 year old a bit stressful. It's not always possible to get down when the bus is stationary/stop before etc if they don't stop, and if you leave it till when the bus is stopped it's that mad dash which also risks drawing ire. I absolutely would report it - he shouldn't have spoken to you like that. I'm guessing you wouldn't have had a chance to get his details but if you give the time/route that might help, guess it might be the bus provider rather than TfL but try both? I think given you were with a small child it's unacceptable that he was shouting at you. I've usually had good treatment from bus drivers when I'm with the kids (not always the passengers though!) but at times the lack of regard for safety has really shocked me.

Hope it's helped having a little vent and hearing some supportive messages, I'm sure a letter of complaint would be cathartic!

Xx

[Carbonara]

An upsetting and frustrating experience.

I winder if the bell was working? Did you see the 'Bus Stopping' sign come on?

I think you are brave, tackling the stairs with a 3 year old and scooter.

Hope you feel better soon.

[Otta]

Any idea what school the teenagers were from? In my day that bus was full of Aske's and Waverley (now Harris) kids. If you recognised the ties I'd complain to the sachools about the behaviour of their students whilst on the bus. Schools are not responsible for their students once off grounds, but they don't want their students behaving badly whilst wearing the school badge / tie (and thus representing the school) so would probably take it seriously.

[Ellie78]

Thanks everyone. tbh - I think the lesson here is don't go on top of the bus with the 3yo. I did everything I was supposed to do (and yes the bell worked). Going down a stop earlier would't have helped (I wouldn't have got him down in time, and its quite a steep hill). They go way too fast down that route at the end. I went down the stairs because he was slowing to stop - the fact that he didn't wasn't my fault: he should have done, the bell had been rung, twice, and the light was on.

And it was a weekend, so I can't contact/identify the school unfortunately. But I think the reason I was so shaken by the whole experience was the pack mentality of the teenagers, rather than the fact that the driver was accelerator happy (although it was quite unnerving). I was shouting for help and all I got in return was jeers. It was quite intimidating actually. I don't think having a child is a 'get out of jail free card' - or entitles you to anything - but I'm actually quite shocked that it didn't stop these teenagers from aggressive behaviour. Anyone else would just have alerted the driver. And I think that the fact that they were shouting at me made the driver think there was a problem.

[Ellie78]

Should have said, thanks for the perspective on it everyone. It's really good to hear other people's reactions.

[MAK]

Glad you reported the incident and sorry to hear you had a bad experience.

[Ole]

I think if you know what school the kids are from you should report it to the head. Filming or taking a photograph of a child without the parent consent, and storing and distributing the footage (eg on social media) is a criminal offence (I think), so it is a very serious matter and I am sure any school whose pupils do this would be keen to talk with them about. Teenagers don't always understand/know how serious it could get.

[Ellie78]

Thanks Ole and Mak - to be honest, I don't really want to go searching through You Tube looking for it.

And unfortunately, I really don't know where they're from - or what school they go to. And I don't think it's an issue in the "issue" sense that these schools would be willing to tackle.

[Otta]

I disagree, I think the schools would take it very seriously.

But if you don't know where they were from that's that.

[LucyInTheRye]

You poor thing. That would have really upset me, too. I don't think you were OTT in saying you would report the driver.

[Angelina]

Bus drivers are responsible for the safety of their passengers.

With consideration, there is a bit of common sense in moving around a bus that is still travelling. They are not the smoothest ride and brake suddenly.

Next time, you might think about being the first down the stairs, so if little one does fall, he will just fall into you

[Lowlander]

Angelina Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bus drivers are responsible for the safety of

> their passengers.

>

> With consideration, there is a bit of common sense

> in moving around a bus that is still travelling.

> They are not the smoothest ride and brake

> suddenly.

>

> Next time, you might think about being the first

> down the stairs, so if little one does fall, he

> will just fall into you

What a completely unhelpful post. It looks like you didn't read the original post before replying?

This is really two things:

1. A completely unsafe, unhelpful and rude bus driver - and good on you for reporting him.

2. A bunch of inconsiderate youths who should have jumped in to help

[Saffron]

Angelina Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bus drivers are responsible for the safety of

> their passengers.

>

> With consideration, there is a bit of common sense

> in moving around a bus that is still travelling.

> They are not the smoothest ride and brake

> suddenly.

>

> Next time, you might think about being the first

> down the stairs, so if little one does fall, he

> will just fall into you

And then you will both be knocked down the stairs by some sh1t driver who doesn't give a flying f*ck, and TFL will do nothing. Meanwhile the bus company will by turns antagonise/ignor you while you try to make legit complaints about drivers' shouting and reckless driving, even if you have a time-stamped pic of the numberplate and an independent witness.

Been there, done that. More than once. And yes, I do know how to ride a bus, and what passengers' responsibilities are.

When/if I have another incident, I'm filing a police report. It seems this is the only way to be taken seriously.

To the OP, so sorry for your experience. It's inexcusable to be treated this way. xx

[Angelina]

Lovely to feel your wrath. Was my reply not soothing enough, LL?

TfL will follow up any reports of bus drivers driving unsafely and investigate. Bus drivers are not trained to be poilte - they are trained to drive buses.

The original post should write to TfL and state facts, driver details.

The fact there were inconsiderate youths is technically by the by (apart from adding insult to injury), and is irrelevant to the issue of the bus driver failing to stop at a stop.

But, yes - horrible experience - unneccessarily stressful. Hoping you feel calmer and better, OP

[Lowlander]

Angelina Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lovely to feel your wrath. Was my reply not

> soothing enough, LL?

>

> TfL will follow up any reports of bus drivers

> driving unsafely and investigate. Bus drivers are

> not trained to be poilte - they are trained to

> drive buses.

>

> The original post should write to TfL and state

> facts, driver details.

>

> The fact there were inconsiderate youths is

> technically by the by (apart from adding insult to

> injury), and is irrelevant to the issue of the bus

> driver failing to stop at a stop.

>

> But, yes - horrible experience - unneccessarily

> stressful. Hoping you feel calmer and better, OP

I wouldn't say it was soothing at all.

Agree the bit about the teenagers is outside of TfL's remit.

But contrary to common belief, bus drivers are hired on the basis that they're a decent human, are given some customer training and are expected to be at least vaguely polite. Most are good people. But this driver, for want of a better word, sounds like an ar$e, give the original poster's version of events.

[Saffron]

Angelina Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> TfL will follow up any reports of bus drivers

> driving unsafely and investigate.

No, TFL will not investigate. This is because the bus companies are independently contracted out from TFL, so TFL can neatly shed any responsibility. And the bus companies themselves have no transparency whatsoever in how complaints are handled, even when of a serious nature. They only want to know if you intend to file a legal claim agaist them. I'm speaking from personal experience, and that is why next time I'll be making a police complaint for future incidents.

[Saffron]

TFL you make me laugh. We have to put up with poorly trained drivers and a lack of accountability and transparency because there are so many buses and bus journeys. Lame excuse.

The statistics in question here (5000 complaints/yr) must be considered in the context of the 2.4 billion bus journeys that are made each year across a bus network that comprises 8,700 buses, operating on around 700 bus routes and travelling more than 490 million kilometres in passenger service.?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/revealed-complaints-made-about-londons-bus-drivers-including-the-baby-sent-flying-to-floor-when-one-10161419.html

A TfL spokeswoman said: ?Any complaint about a bus driver would be logged and passed on the relevant bus operator. The bus operating company then deals with the driver according to their internal disciplinary procedures. We do not share the outcome of disciplinary procedures.?

[Ellie78]

My main concern was safety - as I said in a previous post, I think the reason the bus driver got aggressive was because I was shouting, the teenagers were shouting, and he thought there was some kind of problem customer (not someone yelling because they're about to be thrown down the stairs with their 3 year old).

The light was on, the bell rung twice, he should have stopped at the bus stop and - its my view that he put our safety at risk when he didn't (and yes, I was moving down the steps in front of my child so that he would fall into me - I always do that - but that wouldn't have helped much as I was about to fall down the stairs myself because of the speed at he was accelerating after decelerating to stop).

I know a few bus drivers assume that the bell has been rung in error if there isn't someone standing at the door ready to get off. When I was heavily pregnant and couldn't stand up very easily on a moving bus there were several times that bus drivers didn't stop when I had pressed the bell because I wasn't standing by the door - and this was their excuse when confronted ("you weren't standing by the door").

I have complained. I have heard nothing and I doubt I will hear anything. But I hope they take it on board.

[GREECE]

I would have reacted in exactly the same way and reported the driver. The drivers attitude was reckless and unprofessional as most of them are I see. Those teenagers were rude and badly behaved. Usually people are very supportive on buses because they know how difficult most bus drivers are. Big hug coming your way.