10 month old waking up for 2 hour stretches at night...any ideas?

[Belle]

I've posted separately about my little boy getting a bit of separation anxiety for the first time, and from what I've read this is when 'object permanence' - realising things that are out of sight are still there - kicks in. At the same time, he's started waking most nights for two hours at a time - it takes that long for him to calm down and finally fall back asleep. He's been a pretty good sleeper since about 3 months, and apart from teething/illness related bad nights, this is the first time since then that things have really deteriorated. When he wakes, we've established he's not hungry/thirsty, needing a nappy change or ill - I genuinely think he's waking up and realising we're not there. He'll be calm in our arms but it's the classic thing of him waking up the minute we lay him back down. Oddly enough bringing him into our bed doesn't help at all - he just gets really over excited. I know too well that night wakings are normal for babies of course, but am finding the fact it goes on for two hours shattering and just wondering if there's anything I should be doing? We've tried letting him moan a little on his own but he ends up getting very upset and much more awake.

NB really hope this doesn't seem like I'm complaining as I realise how lucky we've been with his sleep up till now - ironically he was always really hard work during the day and much better at night - now he seems to have switched over!

[The Nappy Lady]

Sorry Belle, no magic fixes for this. Would it work having a mattress by the cot so you can lie next to him / pat his back etc. to settle him without actually picking up and having to put down again?

Odd he doesn't settle once in bed with you, that usually seems to work for us, though the odd time it doesn't it really drives me potty (usually only if 6am onwards, when I want to sleep on and madam decides it is morning.....6am is not morning in my book).

Really hope it is just a phase and that he gets back on track soon.

Molly

[helena handbasket]

Sounds just like my little guy was, only he started around four months. Pure torture. He never could sleep with us either. Still can't. He just gets too excited and nobody gets any sleep.

I'm afraid the only thing that got us out of that cycle was the old "pick up/ put down" method by the Baby Whisperer. I think if you google it you can find the method, super straight forward but mind-numbingly tedious. Nothing compared to sleep deprivation though!

It can take a few (hundred :)) tries but it really does work. I have yet to hear a worse baby sleep story than my own (and here I am to tell the tale ::o) so if it worked for my little bundle of joy...........

Hope it helps!

[Fuschia]

Belle, ho does he settle to sleep the first time he goes off?

[sillywoman]

helena handbasket Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have yet to hear a worse baby sleep

> story than my own (and here I am to tell the tale

> ::o) so if it worked for my little bundle of

> joy...........

>

> Would you be willing to share HelenaH - in the interests of solidarity of course ;-)?

[snowboarder]

2 hr wakes is horrendous. I know that the pick up put down just wont work with my baby - it's all up and no down...and if he is put down awake (like tried to tonight) he just seems totally unable to calm down and settle.

The only thing...as you know Belle - we found Z woke less when we put him carefully down on his tummy rather than on back, when he immediately startles awake.

Will think of you tonight - we'll be there too but thankfully not in 2 hr stretches!!

[Belle]

He still goes down at 7ish (or 6.30ish if v tired) relatively easily, though has always complained a bit about going to bed and recently his fave trick is standing up in the cot and opening the bedroom door to call us! But basically he's usually asleep in 10 mins or so. Which is what makes the night waking odd - it starts of similarly to the way he is when we put him down - bit of moaning, standing up in cot etc. Then progresses to full on screaming and nothing will calm him but being picked up.

Helena - have got the baby whisperer so will consult that, think I skimmed past that bit when I read it as he was newborn at the time so we weren't really into sleep routines etc.

[helena handbasket]

Same old story with these guys isn't it? :)

What I had to do to settle mine, who was at that point around 10 months , was to start in the daytime. He would not, ever, under any circumstances, go to sleep in his cot and I knew that was a big problem. Sooooooo I chose two naptimes, 9 a:m and 2 p:m. At exactly naptime we went to his room and I put him in his cot. Then I pulled up a stool and read a book with a tiny little book light, not paying him any attention (very dark and quiet room BTW). He was a wild man for about 45 minutes, jumping and screeching etc. (not crying though, just kind of manic. Probably very confused!) but I basically just read my book and once in a while said " shh, your okay, but it's sleeptime. Lie down now". After about an hour he sat down, then lay down, and eventually just gave up the fight and fell asleep. This tedious process lasted about a week, maybe more, but gradually he took less and less time to drift off. Sometimes I would just hold his hand and say "good boy, sleepy time, good boy" and he seemed to like that. I won't lie, I think it took a good four weeks or so to get to the point where I could lie him down for his nap and walk away but I did get there and I cannot tell you what that felt like. But it was not emotionally hard like letting them cry because I was right next to him to assure him. I found it so much more pleasant and comforting really than listening to him cry. But those hours were LONG let me tell you!

That was the critical part because I had officially trained him to go to sleep, on his own, in his cot. I noticed a huge difference at bedtime and later night wakings just because of that. Anyway with night wakings the pick up/ put down can take hours. Not joking. My son has a tenacity I've rarely seen in another child (we've decided to believe that will be to his advantage when he's older :)) He was MAD as hell when I picked him him, soothed him, and then put him back down, and he did not go down without a fight. But after , oh I don't know, 50 or 60 times in about an hour, even he realized that the gig was up. I did try a lot of these things when he was younger, but didn't realize how long the process would take so gave up, thinking it just wasn't working on my tough guy. Desperation drove me to commit to doing it for as long as it takes.

And it changed our lives as a family. In no time we could put him in his cot at 7, say goodnight and walk away, and he'd be up at 7 the next morning. Oh and proper naps, in his cot, at 9 and 2. That is a HUGE difference from up every hour of the night, unable to settle again at 1 and 4 a:m, up for the day at 6 and the sporadic cat naps around the day. Oh and GRUMPY (both of us) from an obviously unhealthy sleep rhythm.

The good thing about learning these skills was also that I finally understood how to approach my son, as he was never textbook and quite a demanding little monkey! As it turns out, the same methods have worked for most things with him...... I have to be consistent and firm or he will test and test and look for a week spot!

edited to add: in the night waking situation, the trick is to say very little and keep the hugs and kisses to a minimum....just pick up, soothe, say "you're okay, I love you but it's sleepytime" and put them back down. Say as little as possible, because as I said earlier, they know mommy's weak spots and yes it is emeotional balckmail that they are playing at! They are way smarter than we give them credit for and those little guys know EXACTLY what they're doing :)

[helena handbasket]

Sorry sillywomen, didn't get to the sleep horror stories tales that I've lived to tell. Feel like I've monopolized the thread for now.....

[snowboarder]

helena handbasket I need your help......! How did you ever have the energy/resolve to do this? Am too tired...

[helena handbasket]

I know. I know exactly how tired you are. So tired that the "jet lag on jet lag on jet lag" analogy doesn't even describe it. I cried every single day from exhaustion and frustration.

I think the only energy I had was from the hope that it would work. As far as I was concerned I had nothing to lose, it really was that bad. I had tried everything, listened to a thousand well intended pieces of advice, read every book, googled every parenting website....... also I felt robbed of my first year with my baby, more torture than bliss, and was determined to turn it around and start really enjoying him. At ten months I realized that it was going to take a lot more than hope to get this kid to sleep!

I really think that babies like ours don't just one day become good sleepers. Some of them need to be taught how, and some, like mine, need to also be un taught the demanding habits learned in the early months. Lots of things we were doing at 4 months seemed harmless but I later understood how they made things worse as we went on.

I promise you, it does get better. For myself, I really started to be a mother and not just a survivor once I was getting a bit of sleep. I've mentioned before that I owe my life to the Baby Whisperer, but I also remember other people convinced that their favourite would work but it didn't fit for me. I'd be happy to walk you through the process if you end up trying it......

[Belle]

HH - really good advice, thankyou! Mercifully he does nap (eventually -s ometimes after a battle of an hour) in his cot in the day so that's part of the battle I guess. But I like the sound of the way you dealt with wakings and also being there with the book, lots of good ideas here. Thanks!

[amydown]

Related question (sorry Belle, my baby is only 9 weeks old so I have no advice to offer but been reading this thread in an attempt to learn!)

When you put them down for a nap during the day, should I keep him downstairs where it's noisier with stuff happening around or take him back up to the bedroom where it's darker and quieter? Sorry to steal the thread!

[Pickle]

Amydown, I really think that's a matter of personal choice. Both my babies napped downstairs amongst the chaos until they were about 8 weeks old and starting to become a lot more aware of what was going on around them. At that point I started putting them up in their cots, with blackout blinds etc. for nap times.

Not sure if it is related, but now both of my kids sleep really well in their cots during the day (both have an after lunch nap of around 2 - 2.5 hours), but are hopeless at sleeping during the day when out in the buggy etc. So it depends on your lifestyle - if you're always out and about it's great to have children who will sleep anywhere, if you're at home during the day and (like me) enjoy having a quiet couple of hours to yourself it's beneficial to have them sleeping in their bedrooms.

[snowboarder]

A 2 hr lunchtime nap?? Pickle - hearing this actually makes me feel like crying!! How, how can I make this ever happen??!?

Sorry B - totally going off topic on this one! x

[Pickle]

Perserverance! Son was quite an easy baby and took to a routine very easily. Daughter (until about 10 months old) would only sleep for about an hour at that naptime, but now happily sleeps almost as long as her brother at nearly 18 months. To begin with she was struggling to re-settle herself after one sleep cycle, if I couldn't settle her back in the cot I used to put her in a sling and carry her round while I got on with things, then when the two hours were up I'd take her out, feed etc. She then just gradually got the hang of it!

Having two children so close together, I can honestly say it's the nap time that's kept me sane!

[Belle]

Don't worry about going off-topic - all interesting stuff! And useful!

amydown - i used to have my baby sleeping in his pram in the kitchen till relatively recently, can't quite think when we moved his naps upstairs to cot but must have been 6 months plus. doesn't seem to have made much difference but i do think that like pickle says, he's now the sort of baby who's less keen to sleep for a long time in the buggy when we're out and about. So if we have a day where we're off to some other part of London for example, I can end up with an overtired baby. I try to time it so he can have one nap in the cot before we go out on days like that.

[amydown]

Thank you Belle and Pickle. So much to learn!!!!! God knows what I'd have done without the forum :))

[Moos]

Getting the lunchtime nap to work seems to have a miraculous effect on sleeping at night. When my son was 7 months old and I was out of my mind with tiredness because he was sleeping brokenly during the day and getting up 3 or 4 times a night, I did a few weeks of pick-up/put-down sleep training, which almost worked but were then wrecked by a heavy cold that stopped him breathing easily. I then went going in and out of the room and soothed him every few minutes, but not picking him up. (Helenahandbasket's technique sounds excellent, I wish I'd thought of that instead, it was bloody hard). All of this was focused on during the day training, as I just didn't have the energy or willpower to do anything at night. It took 3 days, and he started to sleep for more than 40 minutes during the day, and Hallelujah through the night too.

[The Nappy Lady]

I too let my babies nap downstairs in the day at first, but moved them up to their cots from around 3 months old (unless cuddling on the settee....hard to resist when they are tiny!!). For me the biggest breakthrough was having the confidence to recognise when they were ready to nap, and putting them in the cot sleepy, but not asleep. If you can crack that it makes a big difference. It is so hard to hear them cry, and sometimes when you put them down they sound so distressed, yet 2 minutes later they can be fast asleep. I was a lot better at that 2nd time around.

I find they always sleep much better at home in their cots than out in the buggy, once past the newborn stage. I do my best to keep the morning busy so that by around 12/12.30 ish they will be tired and ready to sleep. When it goes well (not every day) the nap will then be 2 to 3 hours - I usually wake her after 2.5 hours at most otherwise it can impact bedtime.

But life isn't perfect. At 14 months my youngest is still waking at around 4am and crying. If I go to her she will 'throw herself' around to get down to my chest wanting to be breast fed, and often I cave in and end up spending the rest of the night in the spare bed in her room with her, but last night it took her an hour or so to settle back down, then we slept until 7.30am so not ideal. Sometimes she settles back to sleep without me going in and I keep hoping we have cracked it, but then we seem to regress again. I am inclined to start to leave her now because it isn't distressed crying so much as annoyance. Maybe I should try sitting by the cot and telling her it is sleep time etc, but I suspect that would make her even more furious! She does understand a lot now though as when in bed with me I tell her 'go to sleep or I will put you back in your cot' and bless her, she lies down next to me and grumbles but tries to go to sleep! I keep thinking it can't be too much longer, I could really do without the broken nights (though I know it is nothing compared to what some of you are coping with).

Molly

[snowboarder]

When do they stop having naps? Am thinking no naps better than grumpiness and rubbish naps. Cot or buggy, makes no difference - and now that time between naps is getting longer, bedtime is impacted (he crashes at 4ish) so won't even go to sleep at bedtime now. Argh!

[The Nappy Lady]

I reckon HH's suggestion for the day time nap routine is worth a try for you Snowboarder... can't be worse than how things are right now??

Naps stop (as far as I can recall) between the age of 2 and 3 I think, but they all vary, and even now at 5 O will sometimes crash out in the middle of a film or something if we've had a really busy and active morning. When she first dropped her daytime nap there was the odd time she quite literally fell asleep at the table, with a mouthfull of food, which we'd have to prise out before putting her to bed - didn't think they could actually do that! So funny.

M

[Pickle]

All kids seem to vary with when they drop naps. My son will be 3 in January and actually asks to go to bed after lunch - I generally have to wake him from the nap otherwise I think he'd sleep all afternoon!

[helena handbasket]

My son just turned three and seems to be dropping his nap these days. He went from the 9 and 2 nap schedule down to one lunchtime nap (about 2 hours) when he was roughly 15 or 16 months, and that routine has stayed until recently. Yes, that means that for 2 years I have had a two hour break in the afternoon. He seems tired in the day but will NOT lie down for a nap now, but will always fall asleep in the car (kind of a pain frankly!)

Part of the problem for us was that I let him sleep in the car, buggy, baby swing etc.. so they were never consistent or real naps. I don't think that "dropping from exhaustion" is part of a healthy sleep routine. Some babies can get by that way, as I kept telling myself, but really my son was not one of those babies and I ignored that for a long time. Even now, if in the car or buggy he will sleep for exactly one hour, at home in his quiet cozy bed two hours. What does that say?

It is so worth it to get them into napping. The time for you in the day is priceless, and I absolutely believe the theory of "sleep begets sleep". If my son got overtired he simply would not go to bed easily at night and the night would be fitful.

Speaking as someone who has been on both sides (horrible sleeper with nightmare non-schedule to brilliant sleeper with brilliant schedule) it is so obvious to me now where I was going wrong (easy to say in hindsight isn't it?) I look back and am so glad that I persevered and cracked it, and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

I have friends who sort of mocked my rigid nap schedule, because I have been relatively inflexible about making social plans that interfere with it. But then they were still up two or three times in the night with an 18 month old, arguing over whose turn it was to get up. I guess it comes down to what you can live with.