Court Lane - Carlton Avenue Junction

[rankinroger]

Tonight I was driving down Court Lane, towards Harold George, around 2015Hrs. As I was approaching the section of the road where it bends left, with the box junction on the right a silver people carrier, that had travelled down Carlton Avenue, came bombing across the box junction. Luckily, I was more aware and took action to avoid an accident. Anyway, a heated discussion ensued, with a few expletives, where the driver of the people carrier was yelling that I have to give way. I pointed out to the driver that he was insane and the give way sign is actually at the bottom of Carlton Avenue and he had to give way. I think we were both lucky as the lights turned green and we both drove off.

Here's a link to the junction in question:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=maps.google&ie=UTF8&hq=.google&hnear=&layer=c&cbll=51.45079,-0.08507&panoid=sJgAdhfnlFxuQ8UJf1EdAg&cbp=12,274.45,,0,2.7&ll=51.450861,-0.085219&spn=0,359.887218&z=13

If you pan the image you can clearly see the road marking at the bottom of Carlton Avenue.

I passed my driving many, many years ago and didn't know that I'm to give way in situations like this.

Has this happened to anyone else?

Is there anything that can be done to improve this area?

RR

[brum]

Its a horrid junction and does need sorting out in some way. The type of incident you were involved in must happen many times each day.

[lilolil]

You have the right of way there.

[Growlybear]

I've had similar experiences at that junction, particularly when going in the opposite direction to you, driving along Court Lane with Harold George on the left. People don't seem to understand that the give way markings at the end of Calton Avenue mean that you really do have to give way to drivers who are on Court Lane, and who do not need to indicate if they are following the road round as it bends.

[Asset]

it is a terrible junction. Court Lane does have the right of way. It's even worse when you come down Court Lane and want to turn right up Calton Ave, people look at you like you're a nutter.

Something definitely needs to be done with changing the layout.

[Pickle]

Agree, I would say 9 times out of 10 when I drive down there the same thing happens to me. And the number of people who ignore the box and block the junction drives me mad!!

[legalbeagle]

I use that route every day to take the children to school and have lost count of the number of near misses i have seen, as well as one accident I was witness to, for exactly that reason. OP was in the right this time, Calton Avenue does have to give way, but the queues are so huge that I think people lose patience and drive ahead anyway. Not excusing them but I think that is what happens. Maybe worth raising with local councillors who seem quite responsive on this forum? It doess need to be changed, but I'm not sure what the best layout would be.

[cathg]

The other end of Calton Ave at the junction with Townley Rd also needs sorting. Until recently Calton Ave had right of way and though it has now been changed no-one seems to pay attention. Coming down townley towards the traffic lights one has to be prepared for Calton Ave cars shooting straight out, regardless of road markings.

[Goodliz]

rankinroger, this also happens to me all the time. Very annoying. I think some people just cannot be bothered to stop and just push it as much as they can.

[BARA]

THERE IS A DULWICH COMMUNITY COUNCIL MEETING AT CHRIST CHURCH BARRY ROAD ON 14TH DECEMBER. SOME ONE SHOULD RAISE IT AS A

SOAP BOX ITEM.

WRITE INTO AMBROSE WHO MANAGES THIS MEETING AND ASK HIM IF IT COULD BE PUT ON THE AGENDA. SEE COMMUNITY COUNCILS LINK ON SOUTHWARK'S WEBSITE.

[bluntlaser]

Agree that something needs to be done with this junction. It's very infuriating that everyone assumes that they have the right of way when coming from Carlton Avenue and I too have seen many near misses. Just amazing how many people don't notice the road markings at all!

[ianr]

Coukld it do with an inverted triangle Give Way sign, to supplement the double dashed road marking?

[reetpetite]

Surely it could be changed to a 'stop' junction rather than a give way with a big sign.

[Mamma Mia]

I seem to remember there were plans to change the layout of this junction a while ago when the plans for the Townley/Calton junction and the speed bumps around the Village and Gallery Avenue were also being considered. A questionnaire was sent out to local residents asking for their views followed by a consultation meeting. There were plans to narrow the road to make crossing safer and to broaden the pavement area along the parade of shops from Au Ciel to the bookshop. Does anyone else remember this?

[cyberplanes]

to add to the problems of the junction, if you are travelling from either calton avenue or court lane at peak times and want to turn right at the lights towards north dulwich, the only way to make the turn seems to be to break a red light (as the oncoming traffic from turney road makes a turning during the green light a challenge) there should be a filter right turn light even if only for a short while each time

[Only me!]

I could use this junction every morning, travelling from ED to Gallery Rd. But having experienced "all of the above" with regards to ill advised, badly judged & sometimes just plain aggressive driving, I just can't be bothered & sacrifice a few minutes to continue along East Dulcia Grove to the lights & turn left into Dulcia Village thus crossing the main junction with no hassle & avoiding the whole sorry mess.

It is a complicated junction but I do think that the problem is compounded by poor phasing of the lights. Which is where the easy fix probably rests.

Ditto the poorly phased lights at the end of Townley Rd, the queue at which I'm sure encourages people to use Gilles Cr ec as a rat run.

Seems like the recent "improvements" have in reality created bottlenecks that create problems in adjacent Roads, which would seem obvious to anticipate ... if only somebody who lives/use the area had been asked.

If the same trafic planners are in charge of the plans for Lordship Lane, then heaven knows what will happen ......

[Mamma Mia]

Only me! Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I could use this junction every morning,

> travelling from ED to Gallery Rd. But having

> experienced "all of the above" with regards to ill

> advised, badly judged & sometimes just plain

> aggressive driving, I just can't be bothered &

> sacrifice a few minutes to continue along East

> Dulcia Grove to the lights & turn left into Dulcia

> Village thus crossing the main junction with no

> hassle & avoiding the whole sorry mess.

> It is a complicated junction but I do think that

> the problem is compounded by poor phasing of the

> lights. Which is where the easy fix probably

> rests.

> Ditto the poorly phased lights at the end of

> Townley Rd, the queue at which I'm sure encourages

> people to use Gilles Cr ec as a rat run.

> Seems like the recent "improvements" have in

> reality created bottlenecks that create problems

> in adjacent Roads, which would seem obvious to

> anticipate ... if only somebody who lives/use the

> area had been asked. > If the same trafic planners are in charge of the

> plans for Lordship Lane, then heaven knows what

> will happen ......

Local people were consulted. I remember completing a survey regarding all the planned works for the area, ie speed bumps, additional crossings, and the changes of the layout at both junctions on Calton Avenue. Think there were changes planned to perhaps 10 or more different locations but some were just agreeing (or not) to speed bumps on various roads. Following this there was a consultation meeting. Can't remember the details though.

[Asset]

Hmmm, I live v close to the Calton/Townley junction and wasn't consulted.

[Mamma Mia]

Asset Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hmmm, I live v close to the Calton/Townley

> junction and wasn't consulted.

5,000 households did including us. Here's the results : Summary of consultation results ? Dulwich Community Council ? 4 March 2009

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/Uploads/FILE_41211.pdf

See Section 5

[flowerdad]

fyi we live on calton ave and there has been much discussion in recent weeks with the engineers and council regarding the poor results from the townley road/calton ave changes to the traffic situation/behaviour. As already posted there are plans to update the Court Lane/Village lights junction too following the large public consultation last year, however we are asking for some more careful thought before more taxpayer money is wasted on "traffic technology" that in fact does not really have any effect on flow or speed/safety. During school hours coaches make a complete mess of the traffic at those lights... now thats another topic that only a width restriction on the road will solve... I won't hold my breath.

[sack donger]

That junction is absolutely terrible! from all angles, not just the calton avenue / court lane one. The amount of time I spend sat there with the lights on red, whilst literally NO cars come the other way is rediculous.

Its also a nightmare to cross as a pedestrian as well, u need your wits about you.

As for the original post, there is no justification for the silver people carrier to think he had right of way. It may be a badly designed junction, but it is obvious that you have to give way at the bottom of Calton Avenue. The guy in the people carrier was quite clearly a clown.