UK troops in Afghanistan...should they leave...

[Ladymuck]

...or should they stay?

[Narnia]

........and should this be in the Drawing Room?

[Ladymuck]

Declan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ........and should this be in the Drawing Room?

I'm not in the mood for anything too heavy...my experience of the Drawing Room is that posts get removed more readily than when in the Lounge...this isn't a criticism Admin...but I do like to get "silly" now and again...and the Drawing Room...as I have been warned in the past... is not the place...

(*puts on a "mock" air of authority*): now could I ask that you revert to topic?;-)

[red devil]

Sounds like a heavy subject to me, certainly not 'silly'...why don't you get the ball rolling and tell us what your views are LM

[Ladymuck]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sounds like a heavy subject to me, certainly not

> 'silly'...why don't you get the ball rolling and

> tell us what your views are LM

On reflection, you are right...where people are losing their lives, this type of topic is better suited to the Drawing Room. My apologies for trying to make this topic lighter than it should be...and I sincerely hope I caused no offence.

[reggie]

Well according to one of the few democratically elected MPs in Afghanistan...Malalai Joya...YES!

Try this blog

[Santerme]

Should we leave, yes.

Can we leave, no.

[matthew123]

Until the Taleban are eliminated I don't think we can walk away from that part of the world - from the atrocities they have committed on their own people, e.g. hanging women at packed football stadia, to the involvement in terrorism and the drug trade the world cannot afford them to prosper - they have to be stamped out.

[Ladymuck]

matthew123 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Until the Taleban are eliminated I don't think we

> can walk away from that part of the world - from

> the atrocities they have committed on their own

> people, e.g. hanging women at packed football

> stadia, to the involvement in terrorism and the

> drug trade the world cannot afford them to prosper

> - they have to be stamped out.

That was my view too Matthew, but I was a bit worried about posting it because I don't think it is the "popular" view. Also, I don't have any sons/brothers etc. out there risking their lives...so much much easier for me to take that stance...I might think very differently if (e.g.) any son of mine were on the front line.

[HAL9000]

matthew123 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Until the Taleban are eliminated

The Romans tried to stamp out Christianity. The Nazis tried to stamp out Judaism. The communists tried to stamp out religion. Why should we succeed where everyone else has failed?

> I don't think we

> can walk away from that part of the world

Why not? We tolerate other fundamentalist religious states - some are our allies.

> from the atrocities they have committed on their own

> people, e.g. hanging women at packed football stadia,

Our ally Saudi Arabia executes women in public, too ? they chop off their heads.

> to the involvement in terrorism

Most of the 911 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia

> and the drug trade

Most of which is shipped via our ally Pakistan

> the world cannot afford them to prosper

Saudi Arabia is one of the richest countries in the world

> - they have to be stamped out.

Sounds like a religious crusade against one particular flavour of fundamentalist Islam? Surely not.

What is the real reason we are in Afghanistan - it can't be any of the above?

[reggie]

There is little difference between the Taliban and the War Lords who are in power at the moment,according to Malalai Joya who has lived through both regimes.

[Santerme]

The real reasons that we are in Afghanstan are geopolitical and geostrategic

If Baghdad (Iraq) is the key to control of the Middle East, then Afghanistan is the same for Central Asia.

One of the only feasible routes to the sea for the fossil fuels of the Caspian basin are through Afghanistan to ports in Pakistan.

Contol of this would serve well the US national interest.

And one of Karzai's previous jobs.......consultant to the Trans Afghan Pipeline project.

Bringing democracy to an agrian, illiterate country with no traditions of real unified govt is probably not going to happen, but if it did, it would be a by product not the primary aim.

[karter]

and what would happen if ALL troops left Afghanistan? The people need protecting but stamping out the Taliban? An impossible task.

[reggie]

the russians tried to 'protect' afghanistan

[SteveT]

So did the British and we got whupped.

The Russians went in years later and they bombed all the cowsheds and got whupped financially.

The Americans followed the Russians into Afghanistan, finding no complete cowsheds, they bombed the cowshed ruins.....to be continued.

I look at this place and wonder how it sustains life, when it has all the hallmarks of a moonscape, but with some of our guys left behind to suffer it.

A few years from now our guys will be pulled out from the wreckage, some will be in wheel chairs, some will be buried and the moonscape will look exactly the same.

There will be no changes, it will still be a lawless piece of ground like it has always been, but there will definitely be less of our guys alive.

[monica]

I think Ladymuck has done the right thing by starting a topic that can be sensitive to a majority of the people. I never wanted the troops to go in initially, and the fact that the Americans, Brits and Russians are all trying to make Afghanistan a safer place, just goes to show no one will probably get it right, but are going to try their hardest to do right by the afghanistans, no matter what.

[mockney piers]

"Brits and Russians are all trying to make Afghanistan a safer place, just goes to show no one will probably get it right, but are going to try their hardest to do right by the afghanistans"

no winking smiley? This is clever use of irony isn't it I take it.

If not try "the great game" on wikipedia for starters. I think you'll find the well being of the afghans isn't paramount.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

deleted.

Poor judgment on my part (must go and get nicotine).

[Santerme]

karter Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> and what would happen if ALL troops left

> Afghanistan? The people need protecting but

> stamping out the Taliban? An impossible task.

If all troops left

It would be Saigon all over again with helicopters collecting the last one's out from the roofs

[Sephiroth]

This one stood the test of time

Santerme Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> karter Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > and what would happen if ALL troops left

> > Afghanistan? The people need protecting but

> > stamping out the Taliban? An impossible task.

>

> If all troops left

>

> It would be Saigon all over again with helicopters

> collecting the last one's out from the roofs

[JohnL]

I wondered whether I'd been banned from the drawing room all these years until I saw the date.

Can't help but think Biden secretly wanted troops out - I heard it said on CNN too.

[KidKruger]

Wow !!!😳

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This one stood the test of time

>

> Santerme Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > karter Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > and what would happen if ALL troops left

> > > Afghanistan? The people need protecting but

> > > stamping out the Taliban? An impossible task.

> >

> > If all troops left

> >

> > It would be Saigon all over again with

> helicopters

> > collecting the last one's out from the roofs