Seacow/MEATliquor (main section)

[Otta]

I am actually more than happy for smoking to never return to pubs (and I smoke).

The pubs in ED tend now to be places that people go for a bite to eat. Pub culture where you go and meet your mates on a Saturday and spend hours reading the paper, talking and putting the world to rights, that's largely gone.

[Jeremy]

In the day - yes, mainly for food. But in the evening it's still more about drink.

[Mick Mac]

Otta Wrote:

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Pub culture where you go and

> meet your mates on a Saturday and spend hours

> reading the paper, talking and putting the world

> to rights, that's largely gone.

We all know what that is Otta.... Wife and kids.

[Otta]

Well yes, as well as nearly all of my friends leaving London. But I don't see groups like that in boozers anymore. And the last thing you want in the pub is your bloody wife and kid!

[LondonMix]

I see plenty of groups like that in pubs in evening. Especially in the Great Exhibition and the Bishop. More in the evenings during the week but also on the weekend.

[Seabag]

Otta Wrote:

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> I am actually more than happy for smoking to never

> return to pubs (and I smoke).

>

> The pubs in ED tend now to be places that people

> go for a bite to eat. Pub culture where you go and

> meet your mates on a Saturday and spend hours

> reading the paper, talking and putting the world

> to rights, that's largely gone.

The Bird in Hand still has these features I believe

You know, the one on Dartmouth Road Otta

And some of the customers can read I think, or at least point at the pictures

[Louisa]

Pub culture is alive and kicking in the suburbs and beyond, it's just gentrification has wiped out most traditional inner London boozers, because, you know, working class people can like it or lump it, who cares if they don't have anywhere to go for a drink locally. Sell up and move out, this area isn't yours anymore. As long as the wealthy newbies have somewhere to take their prams and eat poncy food that's all that really matters. Now put those pickled eggs in the bin and pass me those stuffed olives, this chateauneuf du papp tastes shit without them.

Louisa.

[Seabag]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Pub culture is alive and kicking in the suburbs

> and beyond, it's just gentrification has wiped out

> most traditional inner London boozers, because,

> you know, working class people can like it or lump

> it, who cares if they don't have anywhere to go

> for a drink locally. Sell up and move out, this

> area isn't yours anymore. As long as the wealthy

> newbies have somewhere to take their prams and eat

> poncy food that's all that really matters. Now put

> those pickled eggs in the bin and pass me those

> stuffed olives, this chateauneuf du papp tastes

> shit without them.

>

> Louisa.

And gak, that single handedly has fekked up more establishments than anything I know

It's across the class divide and I've seen many trad London boozers with their frozen faced regulars on a Friday nite

It's hideously boring and I do see it elsewhere too. I've basically stopped going to places with anyone in

[Earl Aelfheah]

It was all better in my day

[Seabag]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> It was all better in my day

Ha ha!

Tho I did like going to proper old duffer pubs when we were in our 20's

Real ale and cricket whites

Oh and jumpers for goal posts and all that

[Louisa]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Louisa Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Pub culture is alive and kicking in the suburbs

> > and beyond, it's just gentrification has wiped

> out

> > most traditional inner London boozers, because,

> > you know, working class people can like it or

> lump

> > it, who cares if they don't have anywhere to go

> > for a drink locally. Sell up and move out, this

> > area isn't yours anymore. As long as the

> wealthy

> > newbies have somewhere to take their prams and

> eat

> > poncy food that's all that really matters. Now

> put

> > those pickled eggs in the bin and pass me those

> > stuffed olives, this chateauneuf du papp tastes

> > shit without them.

> >

> > Louisa.

>

>

> And gak, that single handedly has fekked up more

> establishments than anything I know

> It's across the class divide and I've seen many

> trad London boozers with their frozen faced

> regulars on a Friday nite

>

> It's hideously boring and I do see it elsewhere

> too. I've basically stopped going to places with

> anyone in

I can honestly say, not one of the local pubs I have been in post about 2008/9 has been any good. No one talks to strangers anymore, it's all closed off little cliques of people (most of which lack characters). It's not just a class issue, it's a crisis of personalities! Phone use needs to be banned from pubs, as well as anything beyond a bag of crisps in the food department. Social facilities such as darts, card games and pool/snooker enhance the social aspect of a public house IMHO. Food just seperates everyone. Why are all gentrified pubs so bloody boring and lacking in atmosphere?

It's telling that gastro refurbs locally have tended to fail in the long term once the hype is over, and the rough around the edge ones have lasted decades unchanged.

Louisa.

[Jeremy]

Pub culture alive and kicking in the suburbs?? No, they've all been turned into mini Tescos.

Rough-around-the-edges pubs in ED have all survived, unchanged? I can't name even one.

[Otta]

Castle? Pretty much unchanged despite a bit of a facility a while back.

[DaveR]

"Pub culture is alive and kicking in the suburbs and beyond, it's just gentrification has wiped out most traditional inner London boozers, because, you know, working class people can like it or lump it, who cares if they don't have anywhere to go for a drink locally. Sell up and move out, this area isn't yours anymore. As long as the wealthy newbies have somewhere to take their prams and eat poncy food that's all that really matters. Now put those pickled eggs in the bin and pass me those stuffed olives, this chateauneuf du papp tastes shit without them."

A nice story that fits with all Lulu's tired prejudices, but also dead wrong. Cheap take out booze, big chain stand-up lager barns and just changing behaviour are what have killed off old-fashioned pubs, and the trad working class ones more than any others. Where they survive unchanged it's generally because the local area is so depressed that no one wants to make better use of the site. A pub like the CPT in the suburbs wouldn't have become the Gt Exhibition (which may or may not be your cup of tea but is still recognisably a pub) - it would now be the Golden Dragon Chinese, or else would be boarded up.

[Louisa]

I wasn't referring just to ED. Nunhead a great example. Man of Kent and Pyro, unchanged and still going strong for decades. The Castle, as Otta points out. The Old Apple Tree in Peckham. The few remaining are doing well for themselves. And Jeremy that's rubbish, I can take you or any other forumite to numerous old school pubs out in the burbs. I think certain ED gastro fans are in denial! Let's see how long the latest crop of foody pubs last.

Louisa.

[Mick Mac]

Louisa - Surely logic suggests that games in pubs were invented to take away boredom amongst men who wouldn't talk. If they are not necessary now then that's a suggestion that people go to pubs as groups, with things to talk about, and that pubs are more welcoming places for all.

The pubs that have children and families in are primarily being aimed at that market - they are in business to make money after all. We don't need darts flying around in family friendly pubs.

[Louisa]

Mick Mac I always found pool and darts to be really popular social events in pubs, with teams competing from rival pubs. I do not recognise the antisocial aspect of this side of traditional pub culture at all? Pubs more welcoming? How do you reach that conclusion? All I see are people in groups stood around or sat around eating and not letting anyone in or even recognising/conversing with strangers. It's all because incredibly antisocial. Family friendly pubs, for me, means gentrified yummy mummy play centres where they can nurse a coffee or small glass of wine for a couple of hours while their darling offspring run around the pub making it uncomfortable for everyone else.

Louisa.

[Otta]

I don't think you can entirely rubbish Louisa's point. There us undoubtedly a (bloody dull) culture of wanting to go to pubs to eat these days.

But for me the biggest thing killing off pub culture is simply the price of a pint and the general price of living these days. I simply can't afford drinking sessions in the pub anymore, and certainly not on a regular basis.

[LondonMix]

No one goes to them Louisa! The Castle is the last one in ED and its really not that busy. There would be more traditional boozers if anyone (included the working class still living in the area) patronized them more.

I think its more an age thing than a class thing. Most people below a certain age just aren't that keen to go to a really old fashioned boozer.

Louisa Wrote:

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> Pub culture is alive and kicking in the suburbs

> and beyond, it's just gentrification has wiped out

> most traditional inner London boozers, because,

> you know, working class people can like it or lump

> it, who cares if they don't have anywhere to go

> for a drink locally. Sell up and move out, this

> area isn't yours anymore. As long as the wealthy

> newbies have somewhere to take their prams and eat

> poncy food that's all that really matters. Now put

> those pickled eggs in the bin and pass me those

> stuffed olives, this chateauneuf du papp tastes

> shit without them.

>

> Louisa.

[Seabag]

I'm only into a few Pub's with food offers

My top ones are:

The Camberwell Arms

Franklins

The Merchant Tavern Shoreditch

The Marksman Hackney

The Eagle Farringdon

Anchor & Hope

Not many do it well I'm afraid, well not for me anyway. I just can't be doing with 'okay' places, life's too short

[Jeremy]

Louisa Wrote:

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> I can take you or any other forumite to numerous old school pubs out in the burbs.

Right. So just because pubs still exist, "pub culture is alive and kicking in the suburbs"? Nope. I grew up in the suburbs (as did many of us), there were three pubs in my (not posh) village. Only one is left now (and it has been turned into some sort of Harvester/Beefeater type place). Similar story everywhere. Traditional pubs are in terminal decline.

A few are left in Nunhead and Peckham (btw the Castle is not "unchanged"), but they are not busy.

[sheff]

I'm still struggling to find a pub in London that plays Aunt Sally.

Seriously, its the pub game of all pub games.

You can while away many a sunny evening throwing sticks at her...

[DulwichFox]

Early One Evening (Parody) by Fred Wedlock

Freddie Ellis.

Apologies for not being able to find original by Fred Wedlock ..

DulwichFox

[Seabag]

The very best pub I've ever been to was in Tarring Village, it was a bike ride away from where me and my mate lived. We were in our twenties and life was absolutely sweet.

No serious jobs, no serious girlfriends, no children, no mortgages, no thoughts of other than 'where we going this weekend, and who are we meeting'

The Vine was probably the epitome of 'a village pub' for a good few years. Real ale, a range of people from old to young, roast potatoes on the bar, flirting, and just a beautiful piss take when required. But we weren't locals even though we lived nearby, it was that it was so brilliantly 'Tarring Village' that we went there, a kinda unreal pub if you like, but really unreal and good in the way you knew 'this moment is great while it lasts'. And some places are like that for a while

In the same area there were other pubs, tho only one other stood out. It shared some of The Vine's attributes in beer, but everything else was polar opposite. It was so shite that it was great fun to go to in its own right

Sunday back in 'those days' was brilliant, but then so were many things. We were young and didn't have a care in the world, not even about what was playing on the juke box

And that's why no pub, now or in the future will cut it, and I love that

Our time now is fleeting and we're enjoying many other things now, I mean "who the hell goes to the pub these days?"

[Otta]

That's pretty much how I felt about the CPT during the noughties.