Seacow/MEATliquor (main section)

[Louisa]

With the news Seacow is closed, I cannot find any information on the planning portal for the future of the site. However, interestingly, MEATliquor Dulwich has an account on Twitter (not sure if it's connected to the official Twitter account of MEATliquor or not, can someone please verify?) which I found just now.

Louisa.

[binkylilyput]

Ooh! How can we get this put in the main section? I wanna know too Louisa.......!

[HopOne]

There won't be an application necessarily as there is no change of use. A fish and chips shop isn't classed as sui generis, sadly.

[DulwichFox]

@MEATliquorED MEATliqor Dulwich Has no tweets .. has 2 followers and follows no one.

Only confirmed followers have access to @MEATliquorED's Tweets and complete profile. You need to send a request before you can start following this account.

Perhaps they are waiting until they open..

DulwichFox

[Louisa]

Seeing as MEATliqour began its life in a Peckham car park, I think it would be a positive edge to a story in which a local business is sadly forced to close due to rental increases (if that's why they closed). If MEATliquor do take on this relatively small footprint, it won't be long before more established chains consider taking on smaller local footprints too (17 LL springs to mind here). Personally, I'd have preferred a pie n mash shop, but again Peckham serves me well on that front.

Louisa.

[Rolo Tomasi]

"Seeing as MEATliqour began its life in a Peckham car park."

Really? I thought it was in New Cross.

[LondonMix]

I remember it being in Peckham though as a pop up it probably was in loads of places before finding its feet. Its remarkable how well they are doing after opening their first shop only 5 years ago. They now have London branches in Shoreditch, Islington, Brixton, Covent Garden, West London and soon Dulwich. I wonder if they and honest burger were fighting fort he same space (either here or in Peckham).

Thanks Louisa for your investigative work. I've heard that rumour that they were taking over the Sea Cow a few times now.

I'm not sure what a small group like MeatLiquor does will impact the analysis of a huge multinational chain in terms of size of units. Most of the businesses on Lordship lane already have at least two shops including Lordship Lane carpets (who have a store in Blackheath).

[Seabag]

Rolo Tomasi Wrote:

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> "Seeing as MEATliqour began its life in a Peckham

> car park."

>

> Really? I thought it was in New Cross.

New Cross was later, the car park of Print (Bellenden) Village was one of the early venues

Quite fun it was too, all pallets and the likes. But fekk it took ages to actually get the burger you'd ordered

I'd heard a while ago a something might be afoot with that group, but rumours are just that. If it does happen I'd not be suprised, seeing as the Honest guys are in Peckham now it probably gives them the drive to push it on

And Scott's probably opened more 'locals' than most people I know around here. Good luck to them too

I could eat one of their chicken burgers right now

[Grok]

Meat liquor is, at least, co owned by Scott, who had the castle in camberwell, bishop, actress etc who then sold to IPA before buying meatliquor. Scott is also the same bloke who flouted traffic/planning law constructing a basement swimmimg pool on crawthew grove, causing nuisance to neighbours and local traffic, where he sometimes lives. So again comes back to crap on local area, a small chain with big bucks buying out small independents on LL to sell onto big chains ruining LL for good.

[Jeremy]

He sold to IPA?

[LondonMix]

Meat Liquor really isn't anymore of a chain than the other shops on Lordship lane, almost all of which have more than one branch. The idea that we can only support a small business owner of they have no ambition or aren't successful enough to open more than one store seems perverse.

[Grok]

I believe so as I think they are running bishop at least.

Jeremy Wrote:

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> He sold to IPA?

[Grok]

Yes, it does. I suppose it is due to the relatively small geographical location and owing X businesses in that area rather than X businesses spresd across a much larger geographical area where the effect is lessened.

LondonMix Wrote:

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> Meat Liquor really isn't anymore of a chain than

> the other shops on Lordship lane, almost all of

> which have more than one branch. The idea that

> we can only support a small business owner of they

> have no ambition or aren't successful enough to

> open more than one store seems perverse.

[binkylilyput]

Oh man this forum has me in stitches! Such nonsense.

I'm not sure what someone has to do to get support with a business and praise on here but this is a local guy with a successful business that originated locally- a burger van in Peckham (got destroyed eventually), pub residences in Herne Hill and New Cross.

Well done Yianni and MEATliquor....... welcome home!

[nashoi]

IPA is a type of beer not a company.

Meat Liquor boasts of being an international chain as they have a branch in Singapore with plans to open more overseas.

Honest Burger with about 10 branches is also definitely a chain IMHO.

In New York the legal definition is 10 branches or more, as far as I'm aware there is no such definition over here, personally I'd say once the owner is no longer involved in the day to day running of a branch and you have standardised menus then you're definitely in chain territory.

[Jeremy]

nashoi Wrote:

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> IPA is a type of beer not a company.

Exactly what I was thinking!!

"sold to IPA"... haha..

[Mustard]

Meatwagon started out in a Kennington pub car park, the Ship.

[LondonMix]

Okay, by that definition most of the shops on LL aren't chains as very few have 10 branches (more like 3-5 across London for many of them). To be fair, despite having a store in Singapore, Meat Liquor has less than 10 branches at the moment. I'm sure its their ambition to have more than that though.

I wish them luck with their plans to expand as I don't see why a small business owner shouldn't want to grow or why a local business owner shouldn't still be supported as they become more successful.

nashoi Wrote:

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> IPA is a type of beer not a company.

>

> Meat Liquor boasts of being an international chain

> as they have a branch in Singapore with plans to

> open more overseas.

>

> Honest Burger with about 10 branches is also

> definitely a chain IMHO.

>

> In New York the legal definition is 10 branches or

> more, as far as I'm aware there is no such

> definition over here, personally I'd say once the

> owner is no longer involved in the day to day

> running of a branch and you have standardised

> menus then you're definitely in chain territory.

[Louisa]

If you go to Earls Court Road, you will see a similar setup to LL (granted its central London and on a busy tube line but nonetheless), it has similar sized retail units to LL. They appear to have all the major retailers and chains but in miniature. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility the same won't be attempted in ED once a few have given it a go. I hope we aren't at that sort of tipping point. Peckham almost certainly will be once the station refurb is complete.

Louisa.

[LondonMix]

I agree regarding Peckham as the units there are huge.

There are a lot of areas less affluent than East Dulwich that already have lots of chains. I think if major chains thought that it was feasible to be here, they'd be here already. The large retail units on LL already have GBK, caffe nero, White Stuff, Oliver Bonas (which is medium sized in my opinion) and the chain supermarkets are in them.

I could see a chain moving in the the old ED Deli site when the owner decides to stop doing pop-ops. Also, Foxtons is an obvious unit for another major large scale chain. I'm really not sure where else could realistically work for most large chains. Smaller chains that only recently were single stand alone businesses like Wahaca might still make the logistics of small units work though.

What chains are on Earls Court Rd and how large are the units there?

[Mustard]

Penge is ripe for some more restaurants.

[LondonMix]

Our own Blue Mountain cafe have a branch in Penge and in Gypsy Hill. I'm sure other local businesses from East Dulwich will open there as well.

[Louisa]

LM I fear Peckham will go too far too soon and we will have another Claphamised Brixton on our hands.

Earls Court Road has Zizzi, Wagamama, M&S food, GBK, Boots, McDonald's, KFC, Sainsburys local, Nandos, Holland & Barrett, Costa, Pret a Manger that's just off the top of my head.

Louisa.

[LondonMix]

We already have an M&S food opening (replacing the previous chain store Iceland) and we already have Lloyd's pharmacy (instead of boots), GBK, Sainsbury Local and Costa.

The vast majority of East Dulwich isn't chains (defined as 10 units ore more above) and even fewer are the mega-chains. Some other poster did that math's and she worked out that 80% were small / independent businesses.

I think though that most if not all of them would open here if they found the premises. McDonald's has been in Peckham pre-gentrification and they have a shop in Hampstead. Trust me, they'd have been here already if they could find a unit-- I've heard they are looking at one of the pubs owned by the Dulwich estate but who knows if that's true.

[Grok]

Ok, Ok you knew what I meant, whatever the company is called. Greenking. Anyway, why try and takeover ED by repeating the same business model, buy, success, sell onto chain, and then lose indies? Why do it in ED? Why not elsewhere in london? Or is it about domination/control of ED?

Jeremy Wrote:

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> nashoi Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > IPA is a type of beer not a company.

>

> Exactly what I was thinking!!

>

> "sold to IPA"... haha..