National Insurance contributions and their worth.

[Y'man]

Having been under a National Health Service hospital for the past couple of years, I have recently decided to go private. I applied to the NHS for the records pertaining to my illness and the subsequent treatment thereof at the hands of the NHS. I was told that I would have to pay ?50 for copies of these records which amount to a few pieces of paper and the time it takes to copy them. My National Insurance contributions are up to date and have been for over 40 years. Until recently I have enjoyed good health my life through with very few visits to Doctors or dentists and no hospitalisations at all. shouldn?t I be entitled to these medical records free of charge? Any views?

[Ladymuck]

Y'man Wrote:

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>... shouldn?t I be entitled to these medical records free of charge?

You would have thought so - wouldn't you...but alas...

As far as I know, if you have seen your GP etc. within the last 40 days, you may view your records for free. If your records are held on a computer, there may be an administration charge of up to ?10. Regarding copies of older paper records, and results such as X-rays, you may have to pay photocopying and administration charges - these can be up to ?50 . I would make further enquiries to ensure they are not just charging you the maximum for the sake of it. Good luck.

[Y'man]

Unfortunately I need copies to give to my new specialist. Serious complications could arise without the absolutely correct information. I don't mind paying reasonable costs, even though I wonder where my NI contributions have been going all these years. This hospital is are trying to tear the a**e out of it though.

[Ladymuck]

Y'man Wrote:

>I

> don't mind paying reasonable costs, even though I

> wonder where my NI contributions have been going

> all these years. is are trying to

> tear the a**e out of it though.

NI contributions have nothing to do with accessing your medical records (as far as I know).

[Y'man]

It's all NHS and my contributions cover that, certainly in part anyway.

[ontheedge]

I think your NI might have contributed to your hospital treatment, prescription charges etc. also your pension.

[PeckhamRose]

I am very sorry you feel you have to go private. I was due for a consultation this morning at Kings and for the second time my consultant never showed and I had a funeral to deliver so had to leave. The last time the excuse was traffic, this time his boiler had blown, so he would be an hour late. Life happens and humans are humans but I have a life and people replying on me too - and this consultation was a long time coming. But I had to go. AND YET this man is the most well respected consultant in his field. Financially I have no choice but the NHS, but morally I kinda feel that way too. So now I have to wait another long time.

I wish you well, and I hope things are sorted out for you too.

[Y'man]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I am very sorry you feel you have to go private. I

> was due for a consultation this morning at Kings

> and for the second time my consultant never showed

> and I had a funeral to deliver so had to leave.

> The last time the excuse was traffic, this time

> his boiler had blown, so he would be an hour late.

> Life happens and humans are humans but I have a

> life and people replying on me too - and this

> consultation was a long time coming. But I had to

> go. AND YET this man is the most well respected

> consultant in his field. Financially I have no

> choice but the NHS, but morally I kinda feel that

> way too. So now I have to wait another long

> time.

>

> I wish you well, and I hope things are sorted out

> for you too.

Why, thankyou, I appreciate that.

[david_carnell]

PAYE or NI contributions, it matters not. It is not some sort of personal savings whereby if you don't use your particular allocation you get a refund.

Constantly we hear the cry of money being wasted in the NHS by back-room admin staff (see an earlier thread in the Drawing Room) and yet their time is spent on processes just like this one.

You have made the decision to finance your own healthcare despite perfectly adequte free care being available. The fact you are being charged a nominal sum for someone to trawl through archives and copy all your documents seems pretty small time.

[Mick Mac]

Tax and NIC - they are both lost money, any attempt to reconcile amounts paid with the direct benefits received is futile.

David - at ?50 for a photocopy I'm sure they won't lose money on that particilar operation.

If someone decides to go private that only helps take the stress off the NHS.

Yes "Yman" I think you should be entitled to the copies free - you would otherwise be adding to the NHS waiting list and the cost that we all pay for people to be treated.

All taxpayers should be grateful for those who go private - we don't therefore have to pay for their treatment with our taxes. Ultimatley its just more money for consultants, but at least one person moves up the NHS waiting list.

[Y'man]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Tax and NIC - they are both lost money, any

> attempt to reconcile amounts paid with the direct

> benefits received is futile.

>

> David - at ?50 for a photocopy I'm sure they won't

> lose money on that particilar operation.

>

> If someone decides to go private that only helps

> take the stress off the NHS.

>

> Yes "Yman" I think you should be entitled to the

> copies free - you would otherwise be adding to the

> NHS waiting list and the cost that we all pay for

> people to be treated.

>

> All taxpayers should be grateful for those who go

> private - we don't therefore have to pay for their

> treatment with our taxes. Ultimatley its just more

> money for consultants, but at least one person

> moves up the NHS waiting list.

Thanks, Mick, I'm glad there's a couple out here with the wherewithal to see it like it is.

[PeckhamRose]

Mic Mac that's rubbish: "If someone decides to go private that only helps take the stress off the NHS."

Who trained the doctors and nurses? Probably NHS and thus our money.

Then they go and leave. Yeah, really helpful!

[????]

But Peckham they don't, it's not that divided. Many doctors and consultants have the best of both worlds - Public Sector benefits (and decent pay) plus high earning private sector top up work. And to a degree good luck to them, they work hard and are used as basic high skilled slave labour during training so do give something back - but I'm pretty sure most privately practicing doctors and consultants don't abandon the Public Sector anyway.

As it happens I think the publicly funded 'benefits' should be scaled down but I think that's true for the whole public sector and that's another debate that I don't think goes well on here.

[SteveT]

DC wrote:- You have made the decision to finance your own healthcare despite perfectly adequte free care being available.

It is not free care we are paying for it.

If it was perfectly adequate there would be little or no private practice, but this is increasing year on year.

I would be willing to increase my payments to improve the system, but not to the extent of private practice costs, for that you have to be very wealthy indeed for all ones needs to be taken care of.

[JohnL]

NI is just Tax now

Originally it was meant to be ring fenced I think, but that stopped years ago.

[david_carnell]

SteveT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DC wrote:- You have made the decision to finance

> your own healthcare despite perfectly adequte free

> care being available.

>

> It is not free care we are paying for it.

It is free at the point of consumption.

> If it was perfectly adequate there would be little

> or no private practice, but this is increasing

> year on year.

Adequate, Steve. Not perfect. But perfectly adequate. It provides for your every medical need. If some people wish to spend more money to get a private room and a bed-bath by a playboy bunny then good luck to them.

[Jeremy]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> a bed-bath by a playboy bunny

I can tell you've been in lots of private wards, David!

With private cover, you will almost certainly get an appointment sooner to see a consultant. Scans, tests, etc can usually get pushed through more quickly. Your wait in the waiting room will probably be much shorter. The benefits are not trivial. However, there are drawbacks of private healthcare too.

[Marmora Man]

Private Healthcare v NHS

Publicly funded healthcare will, generally, be conservative - and adopt a "wait & see" approach to many complaints that people visit their GP with and not arrange full diagnostics such has CT and / or MRI scans or very specific blood analyses. Private healthcare will tend to go to the other extreme and go for all / most possible tests to rule out the unlikely but possible diagnoses.

Practical example - sudden onset of severe one sided headaches. Initial, very reasonable, GP thinking - adverse reaction to blood pressure medication therefore plan a change of medication and a follow up in four weeks time. A private consultation arranged immediately (within 60 minutes) a CT scan to rule out possible, but extremely unlikely, brain tumour.

For the tax payer conservative treatment makes sense as 85% - 95% of symptoms are non life threatening and arranging costly diagnostics does not represent value for money. As a patient a BUPA policy paying for the CT scan made for great peace of mind.

PS: A BUPA full cover private medical insurance policy for family of four will cost between ?3,500 and ?5,000 depending upon age, previous / current medical conditions and level of cover sought. The NHS at ?90 ++ billion pa represents a cost of ?1,500 a head for every man, woman and child in the country. My own practical exprerience and belief is that the NHS could do far more with the same money or deliver the same level of service for far less money.

[Jeremy]

Comparing BUPA and NHS costs per head isn't really a fair comparison, as private patients still use NHS services (e.g. GPs, A&E).

[Pugwash]

I pay into the Beneden private health scheme - this covers members for consultations and treatment but you need to try and use NHS services etc first. Hubby had severe back pain some years ago, could'nt move so was taken by ambulance to Kings A & E - not really sure of cause, but gave antibiotics as thought may have infection and also pain killers. Pain went after a couple of weeks. Reappeared again a year or so later, GP tried to arrange a specialist appointmnet - waiting time for appointment 4 - 6 months. GP wrote letter to pass to Beneden, who got a private patients appointment with same specialist within 2 weeks - tests showed that hubby had done so much running over his life ( anything from 10 - 60 miles a week) that he had worn out some of the discs in his spine. Running reduced to once or twice a week for less than a mile - improvement in pain, but ended up having to give up running.

Beneden is a good compromise - getting private consultations early to identify cause and you have an option to wait for NHS referral and treatment, or being treated privately.

[andyxlandells]

There is another cost to the NHS of private health care when it goes wrong, i had a tonsilectomey privately as it was a work policy, when the operation was botched ( ie i was bleeding out for 1 week) i was rushed to an A&E at the NHS expense

There are also cases of ambulances being called to private hospital to take patients to NHS hosp. in emergencies