Consultation on Bellenden Road - Holly Grove - Lyndhurst Way Cycling and Walking Improvements

[richard tudor]

Welcome to the world of Southwark decision making.

Scheme not needed only pedestrian crossing points need to be improved.

[mikeb]

What is the logic for only taking into account the views of immediate residents? Roads are for everyone - they are a "public" right of way.

[James Barber]

Changes seem good to me. One-way gyratory systems usually lead to speeding and community dislocation - residents opposite sides of roads know each other less.

Walking kids through there isn't great fun and the changes I'm hopeful will make it more pleasant.

I did submit feedback that the loss of parking places seemed excessive and that they should try keeping more or moving them. The final report doesn't talk about a net maintenance or increase in parking spaces for residents which I think could have been achieved easily.

The decision will be taken at the next Nunhead & Peckham Community Council on 21 March. If your for or against these changes you could present any petition at the committee or make comments and ask questions about this scheme there. Councillors can, and at the Dulwich CC often are, by such representations.

Comments on this thread are unlikely to change the outcome. Get involved.

[Lazero]

But how do the numbers compare to other consultations? I know it isn't the same thing, but I've always been involved in residents' associations in blocks of flats where I've lived. It always struck me how few people actually engage with the process or care enough to even comment - even when it directly affects your daily life.

So how many responses could you really expect? You can't force everyone to respond, and I don't want the council wasting a lot of money on advertising/ promotion if it doesn't yield that many more responses. Seems to me they've taken quite a few steps to get the word out.

[richard tudor]

I stood on the corner of Chadwick Road and Bellenden Road just now for 20 minutes, I doubt 12 vehicles came past.

Will it go through? Southwark wants it, Community Meeting or not, YES

Waste of money and effort.

I doubt they will look at the actual numbers only %

As regards Cllrs not a word from any of them a complete wast of space.

[spider69]

Posted by James Barber Today, 11:19AM

"Changes seem good to me. One-way gyratory systems usually lead to speeding and community dislocation - residents opposite sides of roads know each other less."

As the only houses facing each other are on the first part of Chadwick/Lyndhurst Way one way and the rest of the system have no facing houses only warehouses it seems a silly point but no doubt these arguments will be put forward by Cllrs such as yourself.

I am sure people are quite capable of speaking to someone on the opposite of the road if they want to.

Just improve the junctions with better crossings. The rest works fine.

[ed_pete]

Don't confuse a consultation with a vote.

Having said that as I have said before this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut and really feel for those that live around there and how they will be affected.

I am especially concerned about the change of Bellenden from one-way to two-way between Holly Grove and Chadwick. The current one-way street provides vehicles overtaking cyclists with plenty of room, a two-way street means that the road will be considerably narrower travelling from north to south and vice-versa, especially as cars will be parked on the side with houses.

[rodneybewes]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Comments on this thread are unlikely to change the

> outcome. Get involved.

Well said. I wonder how many will? There's a few who feel that passive aggressive online posturing actually amounts to something.

[rupert james]

Well said. I wonder how many will? There's a few who feel that passive aggressive online posturing actually amounts to something.

Could you explain more Rodney

[ed_pete]

(With thanks to Spider69 for alerting this on another thread).

I am totally at a loss. Some of the original proposals to this scheme which included closing Holly Grove completely were rejected by the Council in May this year and an official record made of the decision.

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?ID=5791

And yet now, with no advance publicity that I've seen (in contrast to the previous consultation on the matter) there is a public meeting taking place TONIGHT (23.11) where one of the two "concepts" being put forward is again the closure of Holly Grove ! What madness and what the f**K are Southwark playing at !

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200431/street_improvements/4070/bellenden_road

[rendelharris]

Well, speaking as a cyclist who would normally welcome any cycle lanes, I can see absolutely no purpose in any of the proposed lanes on those plans. Solving a problem which for me at least just doesn't exist - the road is quite wide enough for cyclists to be safe. If they've got money to chuck at this area I'd far sooner it was spent resurfacing the disgraceful stretch of Lyndhurst Way between Peckham Road and the junction with Highshore Road, trying to hold a clean line over that Swiss cheese surface is by far the biggest hazard for cyclists in this area, in my opinion.

[sally buying]

Response from Cllr Barber on his own tread re this.

"Hi ed_pete,

No I wasn't aware of the meeting - as not in East Dulwich understandably I wouldn't be told by council officers. And I wont be back in the area due to day time work commitments until late this evening."

I understand that Cllr Barber, but to ease your pain I have emailed my local lane ward Cllr many times on this since the start and have never ever received any acknowledgement or response.

If the local Cllr cannot be bothered there is no reason for you feel bad,

Apart from inserting new crossings at all the junctions nothing more needed to be done.

As the money came from a grant for this scheme it looks like they have to spend it or lose it or at worst have to pay it back if things are not fully implemented.

Agree with all that Rendell Harris said. Normally I dont. Sumed it up fully.

[kford]

I've nearly come off on this surface a couple of times. Also, it forces one to ride further out into the traffic.

[ed_pete]

I went to this meeting last night but I was only able to stay for a short time. Some Dutch traffic consultants have been used to come up with the two proposals which were being presented. Sounds like it's going to have to go to full consultation which will hopefully be better publicised (the Southwark web page about this meeting didn't even include a start time!) and feedback more widely sought.

Personally speaking (and I cycle, walk and drive these streets) it's a waste of resources that could be better spent elsewhere.

[spider69]

Why have Southwark employed and no doubt paid Dutch Traffic Consultants to advise on a road system that local people have already been consulted on and their views were agreed to at the last consultation.

Bellenden Road is not part of Holland, the traffic and flow make up is completely different and the local residents who live and use this road system have spoken as to what is needed. Southwark Council officers have their own agenda regarding roads and traffic and will do and use whatever it takes to get these plans through.

Why after the last consultation are they still trying to push this through? think about it.

Apart from inserting new crossings at all the junctions nothing more needed to be done.

As the money came from a grant for this scheme it looks like they have to spend it or lose it or at worst have to pay it back if things are not fully implemented.

This will continue until Southwark wears everyone down and get their way.

Makes you wonder why the some parts of the Holly Grove works were never completed in full.

A waste of time effort and money from a grant that could have been used elsewhere.

[alex_b]

I wasn't at the meeting last night (got stuck at work) but I was at one of the workshops that occurred over the summer (also not well publicised but they did drop flyers through the door of Adys Rd. My understanding is that the proposals shown last night were the result of inputs from a small group of local residents (two workshops of about 20 people) plus a survey of local primary schools.

I think some of the problems they're trying to address (e.g. the Chadwick Road junction) are real issues, but it does seem like a big scheme without a huge demand.

Unfortunately from my perspective fixing the jams around the lower part of Bellenden Rd and the reduction of traffic (especially HGVs/Coaches) on Maxted, Nutbrook and Adys is outside of their scope and nobody in the council seems interested in engaging.

[spider69]

This is how the Council normally works. Get a small group of people and then put their views which mirrors their own views forward as that of the majority.

As has been pointed out before very few people ever heard of the scheme from the start.

The road scheme has worked well since it was put in in 1989 and would only have need looking at the junctions although they still work if used properly.

[Jali1]

A couple of points on the Bellenden Road Consultation

Hi everyone, I am a Lane Ward Councillor living on Chadwick Road in the middle of the Bellenden Road area. I have been actively working with residents and the council to find a way forward. As a mum of two young children I would like more road safety measures to be put in. I am hopeful that the consultation, the council and Dutch - Mobycon consultants will come up with a sensible solution that will help pedestrians, cyclists, drivers and public transport to co exist in a way that works better than it does now and helps all of us to stay safe.

I attended the meeting last night and took down many questions and notes, all of which I have fed back to the cabinet member, fellow councillors and officers at the council. I can confirm that they ate all committed to finding the best way forward for all of us.

I understand Mobycon are producing a report of their consultations and ideas to date. As soon as this has been produced the council will come back with the next steps.

I remain positive that we can all work together to make the Bellenden Road area better and safer for all residents. If you have any further issues that you would like me to flag with my fellow councillors, the cabinet member and the council officers, then please do email me on [email protected] and put Bellenden Road in the title.

With thanks and best wishes, Jasmine Cllr Ali

[edhistory]

How much are Mobycon being paid?

Who let the contract?

[spider69]

I find it very strange that you have suddenly appeared on this forum.

You have never written before and have not commented on this scheme or advised of meetings that gave taken place.

What I and other residents find out of order is this matter is this matter was agreed at the last consultation and yet Southwark and you as Cllr have decided to alter the plan yet again.

It is very hard to ever find out when these meetings take place and I suspect the information is only given out to those whose agenda mirrors the Council.

Why are Dutch Consultants being used in this instance when local residents are fully aware what is required. The system that has been in place since 1989 works well and has been fully tested. All that is required is the junctions be modified.

When Consultants are employed it usually means people, Southwark Officer in this case, can say when it does not work, we took expert advice. Not my fault Guv.

Surely the highly paid Southwark Officers are capable of understanding what is required.

Please tell us why you have decided to make yourself known regarding this matter and not from the start?

Southwark has an agenda and it will go forward.

[Dulwich61]

edhistory & spider69 raise very cogent questions, the answers to which we await.

[Jali1]

Hi one of the people that emailed me with points on the event last night brought the conversation on the forum to my attention so I thought I would contribute

[Dulwich61]

Now it's been brought to your attention and you've engaged with this forum, please answer the points raised with you.

[edhistory]

Does "contribute" run to answering questions?

[rendelharris]

Dulwich61, why do you assume that you have a right to demand that Ms.Ali answers your questions? Local councillors appearing on here is simply a courtesy and they can choose whether or not they should. It's much appreciated when they do but they're under no obligation to answer questions from you or anyone else. If you demand replies then go through the proper channels. Your suggestion that she's obliged to publish her notes from yesterday's meeting on a public forum as part of her duties as a councillor is risible. Your tone is worryingly aggressive, as is your posting of Ms.Ali's LinkedIn profile, which you apparently think counts against her, though to me it shows a pretty acceptable record of public service.

As stated above, I don't think there's a problem with the roads in question and regard the proposals as a waste of time and money when other highways issues are far more pressing; neither had I even heard of Ms.Ali before she posted on here. I assume, after your hectoring, demanding and borderline bullying response, she'll think twice before posting on here again.

ETA Ms.Ali has also provided her email and asked people to contact her with any issues they may have - but clearly it's better to play the big man and try to "call her out" on a public forum.