Cat killed by dog on Oakhurst Grove - 22 November (Lounged)

[Meredith]

I got a similar reply. I was impressed at the speed in which I got a response.

[dulwichdogman]

i hate hearing horrible storys like this. the dog is only has good as its owner and i mean any breed. if it was a child or any human this would be a different case to the law. it gives the breed a bad name and its not in there nature to act like that if they have a good pack leader. i have 3 dogs myself 1 is a sbt he is a great dog with our 2 cats and my little girl. if they find the owner put him down and give the dog a beta chance of a happier life.or send him to me and i show him how a dog should act. i have worked with many dogs and dog owners it all ways the owner at fault. i feel sorry for the owner of the cat its a sad lose.

[rainbow]

how could the police said there's no offence to charge.This time its a cat next time it could be a child

[ianr]

At http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/dangerous/index.htm are the "Dangerous Dogs Law ? Guidance for Enforcers" http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/cruelty/documents/dogs-guide-enforcers.pdf and other guidance documents.

[Alex K]

From the site to which ianr refers above. I have attempted to highlight an important bit of text: A complaint must be filed before a magistrate if the dog and owner are to be controlled. That would be up to Meredith most directly, I reckon, as anyone else's version of events -- other than the owner's -- is at second hand.

**Dogs Act 1871

Although over 100 years old now this Act is possibly the most effective piece of dog control legislation available to enforcers. Civil proceedings are brought at a Magistrates? Court and this can be done by the police, local authorities, or individual members of the public.

This legislation should always be taken into consideration when enforcers are investigating any incidents relating to dogs or when concerns are raised over an allegation of irresponsible dog ownership. Furthermore, it can be particularly effective when dealing with attacks on other domestic pets or livestock.

Section 2

Section 2 requires that the owner is brought before a Magistrates? court on a complaint and if the Magistrate is satisfied that the complaint is justified they can make any order they feel appropriate to require the owner to ensure that the dog is kept under proper control or in extreme cases destroyed. Importantly this is regardless of whether the dog is in a private or public place. Note proceedings mustbe commenced by way of a complaint.

**Dangerous Dogs Act 1989

In addition to any civil order made under the 1871 Act, the 1989 Act allows a Magistrate to disqualify an owner from having custody of a dog for any period the Court thinks fit. The 1989 Act also provides enforcement provisions for breaches of any control order imposed on an

individual under the 1871 Act.

**Metropolitan Police Act 1839 and Town Police Clauses Act 1847

These provide for offences for anyone to allow an unmuzzled ferocious dog to be at large (i.e. not under proper control in a public place) and attack, worry, or put in fear any person, horse or other animal in any thoroughfare or public place in the metropolitan police district5, or any street in a town.

One might argue that the dog in question was not ferocious. The cat will have had its own opinion on that point.

[first mate]

dulwichdogman,

A good owner needs to know his breed and the individual dog/s he owns and control them accordingly. There is no doubt that some dogs, often terriers and Staffords in particular, have a stronger prey drive than other breeds (sight hounds are a problem here too). That genetic predisposition will be enhanced if they are being selectively bred for fighting and then, on top of that, encouraged to chase and kill small animals including cats and other dogs. Some Staffords are great with other animals but it is a well known fact that, as a breed, they are more likely to fight with other dogs than many other breeds. They are arguably more reliable with children and people than many other breeds unless of course they are deliberately abused and made people aggressive, as we know many are.

I think the 'blame the deed not the breed' line is slightly disingenuous because we always have to consider what a dog was originally bred for. A dog that was developed for fighting will keep those traits in some of its lines. I do believe that many who get a Stafford or Staff type are won over by how friendly they are with people and forget that they cannot be trusted in the same way with other dogs and animals. Any dog may accept the animals he lives with, including cats, but those outside his "pack" are literally fair game.

[ianr]

>One might argue that the dog in question was not ferocious.

That point was dealt with in Keddle v Payn [1964]. A dog can be deemed dangerous without being deemed ferocious. It's referred to in paras 27-29 of the Briscoe judgement http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1998/929.htm cited above.

[SteveT]

There are far too many incidents like this and the owner has to take full responsiblity, but even if prosecuted nothing much happens to them.

Banned from keeping a dog or a fine, one can only hope that the dog eventually turns on it's owner, now that would be a result.

[northlondoner]

SteveT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There are far too many incidents like this and the

> owner has to take full responsiblity, but even if.

> prosecuted nothing much happens to them.

> Banned from keeping a dog or a fine, one can only

> hope that the dog eventually turns on it's owner,

> now that would be a result.

As someone who lives very close to where this happened,(and sometime sees it strutting around with it's thuggish owner ) I too feel very strongly that this creature needs to be dealt with before it attacks someone. But hoping it savages the owner is a pretty vile sentiment.

[LibraCarr]

Hi,

The same dog was out again today without a lead, and messed on the pavement. This evening the said dog is whimpering in the back garden as he has again be left out.

I think the point that needs to be made is that the owner/s do not care, they have no regards to safety of the animal or others.

Given the attention of the RSPCA over the last few day's, it is hoped that it will be resolved .

Kind regards,

Libra Carr.

[Huggers]

edited for my own stupidity

[LibraCarr]

Post removed - it may identify the incorrect dog and owner - The Administrator

[hpsaucey]

Hope for the sake of everyone and the dog that the RSPCA take it away from its owner. Why some people are allowed to carry on looking after 'pets' after behaviour like this absolutely amazes me! Libra Carr, do you think the RSPCA will crack down on the owner and take the dog into their care?

[Meredith]

The dog that killed the cat is NOT the white dog with patches. The owner of the white dog is very responsible. It's really important to not give out information about the incident if you weren't there. I started this thread because I thought it was important for other people to know what had happened NOT to start unfounded rumours. It's just not fair to post inaccurate information.

[slims]

just to let everyone know,i own the brown and white dog,and the rspca came to my house,because someone on here decided to call them.now my dog is in the house for the few hours im at work.the person who said he left alone all day,this is not true,i work in a primary school,and spend every lunchtime with my dog.my dog did not attack no cat,and my dog does not make mess on the street as he only goes grass.all im going to say for last time,is do not bring my dog into these topics,because the dog whining isnt mine,he barks very loud and clear.And he is always under control.i hope the person who called the rspca knows what they are doing,because my dog is well cared for,and there has never been a problem with any of my neighbours,and if my dog was taken away for no reason.i hope u have the courage to reveal yourself.so i think your confused with another dog.i love my dog,and anyone that does anything which may harm dog will have problems

[northlondoner]

slims Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> just to let everyone know,i own the brown and

> white dog,and the rspca came to my house,because

> someone on here decided to call them.now my dog is

> in the house for the few hours im at work.the

> person who said he left alone all day,this is not

> true,i work in a primary school,and spend every

> lunchtime with my dog.my dog did not attack no

> cat,and my dog does not make mess on the street as

> he only goes grass.all im going to say for last

> time,is do not bring my dog into these

> topics,because the dog whining isnt mine,he barks

> very loud and clear.And he is always under

> control.i hope the person who called the rspca

> knows what they are doing,because my dog is well

> cared for,and there has never been a problem with

> any of my neighbours,and if my dog was taken away

> for no reason.i hope u have the courage to reveal

> yourself.so i think your confused with another

> dog.i love my dog,and anyone that does anything

> which may harm dog will have problems

Dont come on here and threaten people.

[slims]

to libracarr,u didnt see my dog excrement! as for low self esteem,i have lots,i work with primary school.and enjoy my life greatly,as for prestige my dog is a pet,and i have not got the dog for any other reason.i dont understand why you would do something like this,all you are doing is creating hysteria,and for the other people such as hpsaucey,think before you make your comment,because you dont understand the stress or worries you are creating for me or my mum.so leave it out please.

[slims]

im sorry NORTHLONDONER,but if you love someone or something,it would deeply upset you, if all the dogs life you have looked after him,and people are doing things that may cause you to lose your dog,you would be very angry,what makes you think im thuggish?because my occupation and crb dont represent that.or is it something else,please dont stereotype me please.or is because im 6 ft 2,what gives you that impression.because im sure if you ask the local school children there opinion would be very different,or even the parents.i think as mature person you should think before you stereotype me.you think my dog should attack me,why.The big white and brown dog hasnt troubled nobody,or maybe your just one of those people who see a big black man,with a big dog and have a problem.Because i just cant understand why you would say this:

As someone who lives very close to where this happened,(and sometime sees it strutting around with it's thuggish owner ) I too feel very strongly that this creature needs to be dealt with before it attacks someone. But hoping it savages the owner is a pretty vile sentiment.

what is thuggish about me?please tell me. why does the creature need to be dealt with?

and by the rspca came to my house,and they could tell the dog was well looked after.and left.

[cassidy]

well said slims, i have a staffie myself and i'd hate for people to wrongly blame my dog for something it didn't do.

i feel really sorry for the owners of the poor cat but we can't make this into a witch hunt of every staffie in the area

there not all bad and nor are the owners. Blaming the wrong person or the wrong dog is unfair and should stop

[slims]

the funny thing is that there is a vet who lives on my road,who can confirm that my dog shouldnt even be mentioned,and its weird that you could say you saw my dog do a poo outside number 22,when this person has five cats and would come to prove that any time my dog dont make mess on the street,except pee.which everydog does.also the dog whining is my next door neighbours dog.i think it would be nice if the libra decided to call rspca and apologise to me,he knows who i am,and i know him.because i can hear the dog too,now imagine if dog got taken away,imagine what pain your causing my dog,animal lovers my arse.i was wrong to make threats,but i love my dog so much,ill do anything for him.its just sad to see that people on hear are so narrow minded.you should never judge a book by its cover.

[thexwinglessxbird]

Hi Slims, it is nice to hear that you clearly care for your dog - good for you!

You might want to read Libra's first post in this thread though. Libra hasn't been refering to the dog who killed the cat.

At this moment, I couldn't care less about doggy doo. I would much rather witness doggy doo all over the streets than to see dogs unleashed & cats torn apart in their own front gardens!

What makes me so furious is that the irresponsible owners (not only irresponsible!) but couldn't actually care less... Aslong as their dog isn't the victim!

[slims]

the things,is libra decided to give out wrong infomation,my dog doesnt whine,and clearly has a lot of attention,and does not poo on the street,ive been living on the street for 24 years.i respect where i live.calling the rspca,saying my dog is being mistreated,when its not my dog making the noise,only causes people to give me more strange looks,or police or rspca knocking my door.

[northlondoner]

slims Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> im sorry NORTHLONDONER,but if you love someone or

> something,it would deeply upset you, if all the

> dogs life you have looked after him,and people are

> doing things that may cause you to lose your

> dog,you would be very angry,what makes you think

> im thuggish?because my occupation and crb dont

> represent that.or is it something else,please dont

> stereotype me please.or is because im 6 ft 2,what

> gives you that impression.because im sure if you

> ask the local school children there opinion would

> be very different,or even the parents.i think as

> mature person you should think before you

> stereotype me.you think my dog should attack

> me,why.The big white and brown dog hasnt troubled

> nobody,or maybe your just one of those people who

> see a big black man,with a big dog and have a

> problem.Because i just cant understand why you

> would say this:

>

> As someone who lives very close to where this

> happened,(and sometime sees it strutting around

> with it's thuggish owner ) I too feel very

> strongly that this creature needs to be dealt with

> before it attacks someone. But hoping it savages

> the owner is a pretty vile sentiment.

>

> what is thuggish about me?please tell me. why does

> the creature need to be dealt with?

>

> and by the rspca came to my house,and they could

> tell the dog was well looked after.and left.

Slim I was not describing you as thuggish. I think I have seen you with the brown and white dog and it's always leashed and under control. I was objecting to the threatening tone of your post. And as a big black man myself I am not going to describe someone as thuggish merely because they are black. I was refering to another person and another dog - which is always off the leash and has now shown how dangerous it is by destroying someone's pet. That makes them thuggish.

[Administrator]

The RSPCA have been called, seen that the dog is well looked after and everything is ok. I have removed the post describing the dog and owner to avoid further upset.

I would ask people to not make personal attacks on each other.

[Y'man]

Well done that administrator. High time a stop was put to these sad, small minded, gossipy little people who have nothing to do except make up reasons why they must hate the world, and themselves.