Save the Half moon

[LondonMix]

I agree.

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Jah Lush Wrote:

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> > Mick Mac Wrote:

> >

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> > > I think people in ED are more likely to go

> out

> > in

> > > Peckham than Herne Hill. It's got something

> > > different from ED but HH doesn't. Cant see

> much

> > > attraction with HH.

> >

> >

> > I don't agree with that at all. I've lived in

> > Dulwich and some surrounding areas all my life

> and

> > I've always frequented the Half Moon and other

> > places in Herne Hill too. Probably much more so

> > than Peckham.

>

> I mean now rather than before. I see HH as

> offering something similar to ED, but I now know

> more people in ED who would see Peckham as the

> obvious alternative to a night out in ED.

>

> I'd love to see the Half Moon reopen. I'd travel

> to that. I was there a couple of times to see

> music but it seemed to be dying even then. I think

> it maybe stopped offering music well before the

> flood?

[snowy]

The pre-flood landlord had just successfully started music nights again - filling it more than I'd seen for a decade.

Then the floods happened.

[Jeremy]

Would be interesting to see what direction they go in. Will they try to attract up-and-coming/underground bands with a bit of a buzz about them? Or is it going to be covers/tribute acts, ironic ukelele ensembles, and "pop choirs"?

[Mick Mac]

Jeremy Wrote:

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ironic ukelele ensembles,

Jeremy - how could you. ...

[snowy]

Plans appear to include nothing of its history!

https://www.facebook.com/FullersBrewery/posts/931160253597804?fref=nf

"We are going to be putting in a new kitchen, developing a fantastic beer garden and including a children?s play area for the many local families."

I can only guess that the beer garden will be in the space where the back room currently is, and then to the right?

[LondonMix]

Why did the music stop? Was the music offering mismanaged or did punters just loose interest?

[Mick Mac]

snowy Wrote:

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> Plans appear to include nothing of its history!

>

> https://www.facebook.com/FullersBrewery/posts/9311

> 60253597804?fref=nf

>

> "We are going to be putting in a new kitchen,

> developing a fantastic beer garden and including a

> children?s play area for the many local

> families."

>

> I can only guess that the beer garden will be in

> the space where the back room currently is, and

> then to the right?

its probably not a money maker for the demographic of that area to be fair - gastro is the way.

[Jeremy]

Yep, my gut instinct is that while the average Herne Hill resident might love the idea of having a local music venue, in practise they might not use it a lot. It's a pretty residential area... lots of families. Hence my line of questioning. I think they need to either make the venue a real draw (by attracting the right bands/promoters), or have something more tailored to the demographic.

[snowy]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> Why did the music stop? Was the music offering

> mismanaged or did punters just loose interest?

It stopped as the floods closed the pub.

There's one new other music venue on Station Parade that's proving successful, slightly smaller than the HM and was starting from scratch with no history of putting live music on.

[hernehiller]

A lot of the people campaigning to keep it a music venue of sorts are people like me with families.

Can't people with families go and watch live music?

Honestly some of the comments from people in East Dulwich are bonkers!

It has been mentioned many times that the reason the music stopped was because the whole area was hit by a flood which damaged loads of businesses. It was doing very well as a venue that served drink, good food and music. Why can't a gastro pub have regular music as well (something fullers does in many of their pubs)

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Yep, my gut instinct is that while the average

> Herne Hill resident might love the idea of having

> a local music venue, in practise they might not

> use it a lot. It's a pretty residential area...

> lots of families. Hence my line of questioning. I

> think they need to either make the venue a real

> draw (by attracting the right bands/promoters), or

> have something more tailored to the demographic.

[Jeremy]

Keep your hair on, hernehiller! I'd love the see the venue survive, but would worry about the feasibility of a *dedicated* music venue. It can be pretty difficult to turn a music venue into a viable business, and I think there's a limited market for it in that location. My experience was that the venue wasn't doing that well and was under-used (but maybe you have personal experience to the contrary?)

People with families don't go out as much as younger people without families. No point denying that. So I'm suggesting that maybe a flexible space would be a good idea, which could be used for lunchtime dining space, or toddler groups, social groups/clubs, or private hire, etc - as well as a gig now and again. And (not that I'm obliged to justify myself to anyone) I speak as a parent, and a music lover, and someone who has played in gigging bands for 20 years...

[Otta]

I have a family, and I love live music and lament the loss of so many venues.

But I totally agree with Jeremy. They'll be looking at the area and deciding how they can best maximize income. A pub that is child friendly and sells food will make a hell of a lot more in an area like HH in 2016 than a pub which puts gigs and comedy nights on once or twice a week.

I genuinely wish it weren't so, but being realistic it is.

[Jeremy]

Even if it turns into a community co-op thing, it still needs to be financially viable, and they need to think how best to use the space.

[edhistory]

Otta Wrote:

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> They'll be

> looking at the area and deciding how they can best

> maximize income.

They could incorporate a toy shop.

[Sue]

Jah Lush Wrote:

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> Indeed. They could utilise the space in just the

> same way that the Ivy House does.

Exactly. The Ivy House caters for families and kids' events during the day, and puts on live music and other events for adults at night.

Making the best use of the space, surely?

Putting on gigs in one room at night doesn't mean they can't sell food, or have I missed something?

[Otta]

Taken from the Save the Half Moon FB Page.

"LATEST NEWS: This morning, Giles (Herne Hill Forum) and I met with the Area Manager and the Head of PR from Fuller's. I can report that the meeting was very civil, we shook hands, and we were taken inside the pub and shown Fuller's plans in more detail. I also took a couple of rather average photos, although it was rather dark inside with the boarded-up windows.

What state is the pub in? The pub's interior is badly in need of a deep clean and the inside smells rather musty. However, all its historic fixtures and fittings, including the wonderful snug bar, are intact. The big mystery, which the Fuller's themselves alluded to, is quite why it has been shut since August 2013.

What did we find out? We were shown Fuller's 'look book' for the pub, alongside the floor plans. On the plus side, there is a strong commitment by them to restore the historic fabric of the listed bars. They also said that they would try to source food supplies locally, and that this might include stocking guest beers from local brewers. On the negative side, the reality of the massive footprint of their planned new kitchen totally precludes any performance space. They also said that they did not expect to attract customers from outside a 2-mile radius, and were particularly targeting families (mums in particular) with young children as part of their business model. We pointed out that Half Moon Lane had very low footfall. Make of this what you will, but it's clear that by abandoning the Half Moon as a destination venue, then the Fuller's Half Moon will be directly targeting Herne Hill's existing customer base, including the daytime clientele of much-loved local businesses such as Cafe Provencal, the Lido Cafe, Blackbird Bakery, and Pullens.

What about the music? We were told unequivocally that Fuller's is not interested in running a music pub. We were also told that if they lost their planning application they would walk away, as they were not interested in operating the pub on a different business model. Our understanding is that gaining planning permission is also a pre-condition of them taking over the leasehold for the building. I will gloss over the fact that we were asked what we thought of them putting up pictures of acts that had performed at the pub as part of their refurbishment. Why exactly they took over the leasehold for a Half Moon brand that is based on a live music offer is a bit of a puzzle, although the area manager did state that he had been watching live music in London for a number of years and had never once come across the Half Moon.

What difference did the meeting make? I would like to take the opportunity to thank Fuller's for meeting with us and being open about their plans. The situation remains that their planning application will remove a community music and performance venue that has been at the centre of Herne Hill life for over 40 years. Fuller's did not at any point in the meeting today demonstrate any particular understanding of, or empathy with, our community's affinity for our music venue, or indeed the character of the pub beyond its listed aspects. This is not a good sign. They are an outside organisation who will run the pub along the same lines as the rest of their estate. Their plans for the pub need to be greatly improved if they are going to work for rather than against our wider community interests.

I think we all can see that Fuller's are offering a way to get the Half Moon reopened in 2016. We all want to see the pub reopened full stop. However, if we accept Fuller's current plans, then we must also accept that we will never see bands at the Half Moon again, we will never watch comedy there, we will never watch theatre, or film, or opera, or Rollapalooza cycling, or see our local children grow up and perform there, or see Stevie Smith play the blues. The pub will be open, but the things that we love and value it for will be gone.

Although we have yet to see the agenda, we have been told that the Fuller's planning application will go before Southwark Council's Planning Sub-Commitee B on 8 March at 7pm. If we can get the planning application overturned at this point, then this opens up new possibilities, including taking the pub into community ownership. It may even be the case that Fuller's has a change of heart on live music and comes back with revised plans. You should also be aware of the fact that a number of parties put forward bids to Dulwich Estate to take on the leasehold of the Half Moon, and that a number of these alternative bids were made on a pro-music basis. Our firm belief after the meeting today is that overturning the current planning application will take us forward as a community and not backward in getting the Half Moon reopened.

I would be delighted to know what everyone here thinks. We do have a very difficult few weeks ahead in preparing to oppose the planning application, and it would be great to know that we are all still united in our support for saving our great live music and performance venue for future generations of Herne Hillians.

I shall be at the Bullfinch taproom on Rosendale Road tomorrow evening for the launch of their 'Dark Side of the Moon' porter in support of our campaign. Do come and say hello. I'll bring some pin badges too!"

So if planning permission goes ahead for Fullers there will be no live music at all. It's a real shame that they're actively against live music so no compromising.

[Mick Mac]

I'm way too tired to read all of that Otta - what did it say?

[edhistory]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> I'm way too tired to read all of that Otta - what

> did it say?

Fullers are fudders.

[Otta]

Basically Fullers invited a couple of locals in to see plans. They're keeping historical fixtures which is good, but they have no intention of running a music venue, see their target market as locals, with no plan to attract a wider audience. Fullers would pull out altogether if their plans don't get the go ahead.

[Jeremy]

Sue Wrote:

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> Putting on gigs in one room at night doesn't mean

> they can't sell food, or have I missed something?

Not sure if that was aimed at me or not - but yes, I'm thinking along the same lines. A multi-purpose space. Extra dining space for that all-important sunday roast. Kids events during the day. Function room. Gigs. Club meetings, etc. Should it become a community co-op, I think that would be a great compromise - rather than trying to establish it primarily as a venue.

I wonder if the kitchen could go upstairs to create more space?

[Mick Mac]

I think there is a difference between music that people pay to go to see and needs a dedicated space (albeit can be used for other things) and music that is just there as an accompaniment to eating and drinking, such as provided at Watsons General Telegraph...

Whilst I like the fact that the Ivy House provides live advertised bands I suspect the HM may end up going down the WGT route. A bit of a soft option, but more commercial.

Most of the grimy places I used to go to see live music seem to have closed down years ago, the Powerhouse in Islington or the Mean Fiddler for example. Maybe its not what young peeps do these days, they probably go to the Indigo O2 instead.

http://www.shadyoldlady.com/location.php?loc=2467

[DulwichFox]

Back in the day.. 1970's I went to many pubs to see bands and not prinarily to drink..

Pubs like the Ivy House. which was Newlands Tavern or The Stuart Arms..

I went to see bands like Ian Dury (Blockheads) McGuiness Flint, Dr. Feelgood, Steve Waller Band.

They were all on the circuit and were big.. But it was 50p to get in to the back music bar..

I think those days have mostly gone..

Foxy..

[JoeLeg]

Half Moon reopening in February, according to the guy who will be running it.

[snowy]

Has all the planning consent been secured then?

Who is the new manager?

[JoeLeg]

Not sure what planning consent has or hasn't been secured, but given that it's Fullers I doubt they'll be moving of hey haven't gotten what they wanted.

A guy called Matt Dutson, spent the last 7 years at the Masons Arms in Battersea. He's not bad, for a Saints fan.