Delaying school start date for August-born children

[Mellors]

Note to anyone thinking of trying for another one - it was about this time of year I got preggers with my 30 August baby so hang on a few weeks :D

[The Nappy Lady]

So you're u der starters orders.....I will be back to say GO in 4 weeks!

Good thinking Mellors.

[Smiler]

Yes, it's this month for August babies, but next month is September babies, post-Xmas/new year parties etc. so apparently a v.busy month for Kings!

Though have decided that "planning" babies isn't really possible - well, not for everyone anyway.

My friend managed to cross her legs til 1 September, but on the down-side has to pay for an extra year of childcare.

Re.lying about age, I bet they don't check with the NHS when you register the birth, that would just be far too organised and joined-up! Birth certificates can easily be doctored, I doctored mine to add a year to my age when was 20 and wanting to drink in the USA. Probably slightly illegal, but was worth it even for boozing and this is much more important purpose!

[Sanne Panne]

Gotta love the Dutch system where everyone has to go to school within a week after turning 4. The year during which they join and the year after are very playful and no academic pressure is put on the kids - they just get used to the idea of school and catch up on "maturity" if necessary. During these introductory years the teachers deal with one or two newcomers at a time thanks to the spreading of birthdays (except for a slightly busier start after the summer holiday) meaning lots of personal attention. And yes, the Sept-Oct-Nov etc starters do advance while the March-April-May etc kids get settled - classes are small and the programme is designed around the continued integration principle. As an added plus, there are no cliques formed as there are no large groups starting at any time of year.

As for secondary education - there are no private schools (not at primary level either) so the average level of the state schools remains intact. We do have state grammar schools but they don't give you a greater chance of being accepted at some posh university as we don't have posh universities. Maybe that's the problem ;-)

OK just tell me to move back to my own friggin country if I think I know better. Of course I don't know better but I thought it might still be interesting to see how things work elsewhere.

[Pickle]

Very straight forward in New Zealand too - you start school on your 5th birthday!

[mumum]

more countries...in Denmark you start school when you are 6 or 7, before that you can optionally go to kindergarten for a year, so the age range between the children can be up to 2 years in one class. I think the parents decide if the child is mature enough to start, maybe with advice from the kindergarten. Then after 9 years of primary school, you can do an optional 10th year before going on to high school, to catch up, if you are not mature enough. Not sure if the Danish school system is very good though, just another way of doing it. In Sweden they don?t even start school until 7 and nobody is expected to be able to read before this. I think the British schools seem amazing, but this August cut off thing is a bit of a flaw.

[goosemum]

I have a son who was born in mid August. He had a January start date and settled in well from day one. He is very happy at school and is progressing well academically. And he has a best friend who is 11 1/2 months older than him! All children are different, but my advice is that if you are relaxed about it, then your child will be too.

[intexasatthe moment]

If only it were that simple !

Glad your experience was good though.

[????]

I'm relaxed about the Jan starts there's 20+ starting in Jan at her school, they are going into a very relaxed environment (just nursery really) so not sure how they'll be 'behind' and she makes new best friends every time she's in the park, so I'm not that convinced that Jan starts miss out by not being in the 'gang' at four and half years old? We're relaxed - I guess many private schools where you're aiming for Oxbridge at day 2 you would be behind but state schools not so convinced it matters... I don't want my kids to do homework at 5 anyway.

[intexasatthe moment]

I'm afraid that some children - lots of them boys - can struggle and loose confidence even in reception and play based environments.

It's not about them being in a " gang " or being behind academically - it's about lacking social skills , poor fine motor skills that makes managing clothes , wiping their nose /bottom ,playing with lego/painting difficult etc,etc

It's about that child being aware that they're struggling and other kids are flying. ( That's the " behind " bit that you weren't sure about .)

Children that age lack coping skills ,they quickly become turned off ,some even become disruptive.

Good teachers help - but not all have the experience and time.

And just because people can quote examples of children not being disadavantaged it doesn't make the other examples where children have suffered,have had their self esteem and confidence badly dented ,disappear.

[????]

Absolutely ITATM I understand that but then what's the issue with January starting? Surely that helps with the issues you've identified?

[sillywoman]

goosemum Wrote:

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> my advice is that if

> you are relaxed about it, then your child will be

> too.

As ITATM says It's nice that all was well for your Summer son, but this view is very simplistic. My alternative advice would be to trust your instincts for your child - and do all you can to act on them.

Incidentally we also have another summer born boy who is very happy in his school year. He does struggle academically, but I'd say this is more due to his own particular strengths and weaknesses rather than the academic year he's in. Each of our children has had their own personal experience of school entry and ongoing school life. These have had very little to do with our attitude, relaxed or otherwise.

[goosemum]

Then choose a good school where the teachers look at each child's individual needs and where they truly care about the social development of the children in their care. I saw a couple of children who struggled with social skills and they had fantastic support from specialised staff which meant that by the time they reached the end of Y1 they were happy, sociable, settled children.

[helena handbasket]

Oh, do we get to choose schools now?

I thought this was the "you'll take what you get and be happy with it" Southwark system.

Sillywoman I absolutely understand what you are saying........ feeling like you have no control over what is a very important decision, and then being told take take control over it! I felt horrible reading about your little boy's difficulties and think most mothers shuddered at how easily our precious little people become victims of a poorly working system. I don't care so much if my son isn't an academic star, much as we would all like it a bit...... if he leaves the system happy and kind I'll consider that a success. It doesn't seem like that much to ask. Staggering.

I don't ever understand people whose response to serious parenting issues is to "relax".

[Mellors]

goosemum Wrote:

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> Then choose a good school

hahahahahahahahaha!!!

If only.

[sillywoman]

goosemum Wrote:

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> Then choose a good school where the teachers look

> at each child's individual needs and where they

> truly care about the social development of the

> children in their care.

Hahahahahahaha, that's a good one. I like your black humor. Very good.

[????]

...and choosing a January start is not that? Some paradox in your response on this Sillyw.

[intexasatthe moment]

Quids ,the January start doesn't always offer a solution for summer born/" young " school starters.

And it doesn't get round the issue that those who may need it most are often taught in bigger groups than the September starters and have 5 months less of an introduction to primary school.

Your experience - nice big group all starting together does sound an improvement on mine.

I'm sure for most people things will be fine and I don't want to scaremonger .

But, if I had had more support ,benefit of hindsight etc ,like sillywoman I'd have tried harder to find a way round it for my son.

Whether that's campainging to allow summer born/premature etc to start Reception in September a year later , for schools to change how they deal with the January intake by arranging a dedicated class exclusively for that group ,or

finding some other soloution - who knows what ? keep at nursery and coach at home ? and start in year 1 when there will be no places left ?

Personally ,if I'd known then what I know now I'd at least have been more aware - would have treated child,teachers and school differently and not as though as it was all a failing on his part .

People can be very unhelpful - schools ,teachers ,friends ,general public - with this line of " Oh it was ok for my Jonny ,all this talk of summer born being at a disadvantage is just a lot of fuss ."

I think it's better to take it on board and try and compensate for it.

[sillywoman]

My experience (and, of course it's only that - mine) is that we didn't 'choose' a January start. We were told that's what our child was allotted, that was the system in his school. No choice available. If we could 'choose' we would have chosen for him to be in the next academic year.

January start or not, he wasn't ready for full time school and he wasn't, isn't at he same level as his peers in that academic year, academically, socially or in terms of emotional maturity. They are now, and were then all ahead of him. The academics is neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things, but the other stuff means that during his formative years his image of himself is of someone who is always 'uncool', unpopular, a bit behind the game. This was never the case as a small child, like your daughter Quids he always had loads of friends and was quick to make new ones. His best friends though were always slightly younger than him. The self image that his school experiences have helped to create will be with him for a long time. We sensed there was a risk of this happening back when we were applying for his school place, hence the request for a delayed school start.

A Jan start is better than nothing, and yes, you're right - it does help some, but it's not a cure all, and there needs to be some flexibility in the system to allow for the small minority of parents who really strongly feel their child would be better off in the next school year - for the whole of their school life. No paradox Quids, just a different perspective.:)

[powercow]

[i've been offline for 5 days...thanks, Virgin Media...]

Interesting to see the strength of feeling about this subject.

The recent Rose review suggests that the summer-born children would actually do better to start the September they turn 4 (but with the option of part-time and lots of teacher support) rather than waiting until the following January. The recommendations are to be put into place but I don't know how they will work in practice.

I suspect, ultimately, we're stuck in a "Computer says No" situation, where everyone agrees that younger children lose out but it messes up the beaurocracy if they are out of their "allocated" year group.

I'm not going down without a fight - I've written to Tessa Jowell MP and she in turn has contacted Ms Romi Bowen, the Stategic Director at the Southwark Children's Services and The Rt Hon Ed Balls at the Department for Children Schools and Families. I'll update this when I get a response.

[Smiler]

Good for you Powercow.

goosemum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> my advice is that if

> you are relaxed about it, then your child will be

> too.

I thoroughly disagree with goosemum on this! The argument that all will be well as long as parents relax is not only simplistic, it is undermining / critical of parents who are doing all they can to get the best arrangement for their children in what is a fairly rigid system. Similarly, "choosing" a school is not a realistic option unless you have the cash (and desire) to move to the catchment area of your preferred school (which will probably not be flexible on start dates) or go private.

[nutty]

Something else that hasn't been mentioned is the case where a child is born prematurely. Our son is end of august baby but was actually due start of October. Despite explaining this to the woman I spoke to at the council she still suggested it made no difference to the rules. We're actually moving out to Kent as we are so unimpressed with the schools available locally so hopefully our new council might be a little more understanding of special cases such as this. But, if not at least we know he'll be in a decent school!

[daizie]

What on earth does the woman at the council know !? Good for you nutty, very wise move :)

[sillywoman]

Boo hoo, why oh why do we have to have such a stupidly inflexible system?

As someone said - it really is 'computer says no' gone mad.

[powercow]

As I mentioned in my post of 1st December, last November I asked our MP, Tessa Jowell, to look into the question of deferring school start date in Southwark and promised to update this discussion when I had any news.

I have just received a communication from Ms Jowell. She has not received a response from Ms Romi Bowen, Strategic Director at the Southwark Children?s Services, but below is the response to her from Rt Hon Ed Balls MP, Secretary of State for Education ? to summarise his communication, (1) the decision to allow deferred entry is down to the individual head teacher but they?ll need co-operation from the local authority (2) from Sept 2011 there will be provision made for children to start school OR full time nursery in the September following their FOURTH birthday:

The law does not require a child to attend school until they reach compulsory age at the start of the school term following their fifth birthday. Ms X?s daughter [d.o.b. 30th August 2006] will reach compulsory school age in September 2011. Many schools admit children into a reception class before their fifth birthday, but the statutory School Admissions Code requires them to allow parents to request to defer their child?s entry until later in the school year. Where a parent wishes to defer entry until the following school year, as Ms X wishes to, they must make a new application for that school year at the appropriate time. But they cannot be required to send their child to school before they reach compulsory school age.

Children of the same age are normally educated together, but some parents do want their children to be educated in a lower or higher age group than their peers. This is a decision for the head teacher to take, based on the needs of the child. Ms X says the school?s head teacher would be happy to arrange for her daughter to enter the reception class rather than Year 1 in September 2011. This is his decision to make, but he will need to ensure that the class does not exceed the statutory infant class size limit of 30. As Southwark Council is the admission authority for Heber Primary School he is likely to need their co-operation in this. Ms X may want to bear in mind that, even if her daughter is educated outside her chronological age group at primary school, the secondary school she later moves on to will not be obliged to continue to do so.

As Ms X says, research demonstrates that children with summer birthdays tend to do less well at school than those born earlier in the school year. This achievement gap is widest when children start primary school. It narrows over time but, for some pupils, it is still significant at ages 16 and 18. Ms X mentions that I asked Sir Jim Rose to consider, as part of this recent review of the primary curriculum, how to improve outcomes for summer-born children, including considering whether there should be more choice and flexibility in when they start school. The final report was published on 30 April 2009. On the basis of the compelling evidence on the benefits to summer born children from starting school at the same time as their peers, the Review recommended that the preferred pattern of entry to reception classes should be the September immediately following a child?s fourth birthday, but with parents still having the freedom to defer entry where they feel it is in the best interest of their child.

The Government has accepted all of the Review?s recommendations and has recently completed a consultation on changes to the School Admissions Code with a view to requiring all schools to admit children in the September following their fourth birthday, where this is what their parents want, from September 2011. In addition, funding will be made available so that those children whose parents do not want them to start school before compulsory school age will be able to receive full time provision in an early years setting from the September after their fourth birthday.

Finally, Ms X may be interested to know that all types of settings for children aged 0-5 are required to deliver the Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS). This means that all settings, including reception classes in schools, are required to support children?s learning and development through a diverse range of play-based activities. The EYFS acknowledges that all children develop at different rates and in different ways and expects settings to meet the individual needs of all the children they care for.

I?m pretty impressed by the response on the whole, although it is not clear how co-operative Southwark will be if you find a head teacher prepared, as in our case, to accept a child outside their ?chronological age group? (I really hate that expression since the cut off date is so arbitrary).

After much soul-searching and discussion and for many reasons that I won?t go into here (some of them already covered above), we have decided not to carry on the battle to defer our daughter?s school start date but rather to do all we can ourselves to ensure a smooth transition to her starting school next January. This will include continuing to encourage her interest in reading and numbers, ensuring she is socially confident and increasing her days at nursery to 4 or even 5 from September. We are sure that ultimately she will thrive.

Good luck to everyone else in the same boat!