Forest Hill Road Practice - in Meltdown ?

[Penguin68]

They get paid to work full time but on average...

Actually doctors at GPs are not paid by the NHS (if that is what is being implied). The practice receives money from the NHS based on the number of patients on the books and the performance of various procedures (such as inoculations). Salaried GPs (not partners) are then paid based on their contracts with the practice - full or part time or hourly if locums. Partners will share the remainder (once the practice costs are met) on an agreed basis, very probably taking into account (1) what share of the practice they own and possibly (2) based on the amount of work they do (but not necessarily). These are private businesses, owned most frequently by (some of) the doctors who work in them, but sometimes by a doctor who owns many practices, but may no longer work in any of them. In no real sense do they 'get paid to work full time'.

[nxjen]

You may be jumping to the wrong conclusions by only seeing the appointments that are available. You need to bear in mind that

1) I believe some doctors in the practice work part-time

2) Some doctors spend sessions attending the baby clinic and other special patients sessions

3) Some of the doctor hours would be spent on telephone triage, dealing with emergency appointments and home visits which would not show on the appointments available.

4) They have correspondence to deal with, referring patients to hospital, checking test results etc etc

4) And while I'm sure the doctors would prefer to spend time on patient care, they have to spend a certain amount of time on admin.

So while they're not available for face to face appointments, they are certainly kept busy in other ways.

[gerritsmith]

>>

At the most, eight doctors are seeing patients face to face for eight hours a day. That is just 10% of the working day. So 90% of their time is spent doing admin and other stuff?

[Penguin68]

I think you'll find that, of the doctors listed as serving the practice (1) a number are, in fact, part-time (2) at least one doctor each day will be nominated as 'duty doctor' and hence not available for booked appointments (3) some doctors undertake clinics and offer (booked) minor surgery - these 'slots' will not be available for pre-booked appointments, (4) some slots are set aside for telephone consultations (5) bookable slots are not released all at once, to stop people booking up large numbers of slots 'against the chance' that they might need them. So the listing of availability on the web-site does not match, in fact, the normal doctor patient facing work-load.

[wonderwoman]

But either way availabity to book a standard appointment to see a GP means waiting a month. I can't really recall when it started getting so bad. I certainly can remember a time when you could get seen in a week and two was considered bad. Also they seem to only really want to keep discussions to one ailment any extra would mean a double appointment. Sometimes problems are linked so waiting for another appointment to see possibly a different GP makes it a bit inconsistent. I feel the management of the practice has got to improve i don't think the way its running at the moment is efficient at all.

[steveo]

A GP I know recently went to lunch at 1pm exhausted after seeing 37 patients that morning.

[gerritsmith]

Surely not from Foresr Hill Road practice.

[steveo]

I think it's fairly typical

[Tigres Pride]

How did he manage 37 patients in 4 hours Steveo? At the standard 10 minute slot per patient (and ignoring the fact that one hardly ever gets to see a Dr at the actual booked time) that makes 6 patients per hour for 4 hours - a total of 24 patients max. Your GP seems to have fitted 9 patients into each hour!!!

[steveo]

Over zealous receptionists? Walk in emergencies? I dunno. It's what she said. I guess it wasn't typical more likely a one off but in her practice six an hour is a luxury

[HopOne]

It is a problem getting a routine appointment in a reasonable timeframe. However, I think it is not fair to suggest that this practice is in meltdown. I needed to see a doctor urgently yesterday and was accommodated, very professionally, within the hour. Can't fault that.

[dbboy]

Yep, if you want to see a GP they will accommodate your requirements once you have gone through telephone triage, however if you want to see a GP in advance you'll need to be prepared for a lengthy wait, and if you want to do something else make sure it's not flu vaccination time or some other excuse why you cannot see a nurse.

GP's = Good, Reception / Admin = Inadequate

[Jacqui5254]

HopOne Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> However, I think it is not

> fair to suggest that this practice is in meltdown.

> I needed to see a doctor urgently yesterday and

> was accommodated, very professionally, within the

> hour. Can't fault that.

I agree with HopOne, the practise is working well for me. It's not a case of Drs good/Admin bad. The pharmacist is excellent, friendly and helpful. The two nurses I saw were professional and warm. And I have never had a rude or unhelpful receptionist. Maybe a little stressed by the frontline onslaught but try putting the GPs in their posts and the shoe will be on the other foot....

[gerritsmith]

There was not a single person in the waiting room when I went to the surgery this morning to collect a prescription. Seems doctors in this surgery don't see patients any more. I checked their website to see if appointments are available. To my surprise I can't make an appointment unless i have chest pains.

[intexasatthe moment]

I don't understand your post gerrit .

Why are you saying that it seems doctors don't see patients anymore ?

Why are you saying that you can't make an appointment unless you have chest pains ?

Their website says the following

How To Make An Appointment

We offer a range of appointments to help patients when accessing advice and treatment from our

clinical team

Routine face to face consultations ? these are available up to one month in advance for all clinicians. Each GP appointment is 10 minutes long and each nurse appointment is 15 minutes long. Double appointments are available on request and we advise that you discuss your requirements with the receptionist when booking.

Routine telephone consultations ? these are available up to one month in advance for all clinicians. The timings for these slots are approximate however we will endeavour to call you back as near to the booked time as reasonably possible.

Urgent appointments ? there are appointments on each working day available for patients requiring urgent access to clinical advice and treatment; these will be with either a GP or the nurse practitioner. You will be asked by the receptionist for brief details of the reasons for the appointment and advised accordingly; this is to ensure that these appointments are used appropriately for urgent problems.

Urgent telephone advice ? during our core hours of opening there will be a duty doctor available to assess urgent problems. The duty doctor will also be responsible for undertaking home visits as well as liaising with outside agencies such as hospitals, social services and care homes. You will be asked by the receptionist for brief details of the reasons; this is to enable the duty doctor to prioritise any urgent calls.

[Alan Medic]

I've been going there for years and the only thing that has changed (apart from some Doctors)is that it's somewhat more difficult to get an appointment. I phoned yesterday for one and was told to phone back next week 'when the book is open'. I don't know what the system is but it must be there for a reason.

One thing I would love to know is what percentage of appointments are missed by 'patients' who don't bother to cancel them? I imagine running any practice is made a lot more difficult by the selfish people who do this.

[singalto]

I phoned today to make an appointment but was told there are none available until April but that the April ones are not 'being released yet.' I'm not happy.

[dbboy]

Complain to the local CCG and if mo joy then CQC.

[slarti b]

There is something seriously wrong with this this practise.

I have a painful, irritating but not-urgent issue I would like to see Doctor about. No appointments at all available on-line. I looked a week ago and there were a couple of slots available in 4 weeks time which I couldn't make. So, looks like I will have to wait till they release another week of appointments, If I know when.

This is even worse than my experience last year where I had to wait 3-4 weeks for an appointment.

@gerritsmith

I completely agree with your post. At my last visit last year (after 3.5 week wait) I was only person in waiting room. Felt like a ghost practise. not one with 8 doctors. Where are they all?

@Intexasetc...

Please don't regurgitate what is on their web site. What is the reality... at the moment (and I think for several months) you cannot make an appointment unless you consider it urgent!

@AlanMedic (any connection with surgery?)

Explaining your inability to make an appointment You said "I don't know what the system is but it must be there for a reason." Maybe the surgery can explain their "system". At present it means you cant actually make a standard non-urgent "F2F" appointment on web site or by telephone. That sounds like gross mis-management to me.

You mention "Selfish people missing appointments" I am sure patients missing appointments is a common issue for all surgeries but proper management should mitigate the affect. If I ever get the opportunity to MAKE an appointment on-line I wonder if they will send mobile or email reminders. Do they slightly overbook to allow for no-shows? From my experience and that of Gerrit, NO they don't.

I notice the Practice recently held a "Patients Participation Group" Meeting. Did anyone attend? If so, was the issue of getting an appointment raised? Did they say how many of their 8 doctors ( 4 partners and 4 associates per the web site) are actually working?

However I notice that, according to their web site, only one PPG meeting was held in 2015 and there are STILL no minutes of that meeting. Are they covering up their failures?

I am not that familiar with NHS financing but my understanding is Forest Hill Practice, like most GP's is a private practice funded by NHS, ie us as taxpayers. It seems they are delivering a very poor quality of service. What can we do about this?

[Monkey]

"Felt like a ghost practice" -- exactly how I would have described DMC Crystal Palace Road before I left. I went once when there were just two GPs working.

[intexasatthe moment]

slarti - it had been stated that checking the website had revealed there were no appointments and that it wasn't possible to make an appointment unless one had chest pains .

Seems appropriate to reproduce what the website actually says ( the reality ) to counter gerrit's in tepretation .

[FredCasa]

CCGs have no power over GP practices (would not be right - they are made up of local GPs). The CQC doesn't manage individual complaints about GPs either, as it says on their website.

The body that commissions GPs is NHS England, so complaints should be addressed to them (email: england.contactus@nhs.net; phone: 0300 311 22 33). But before they handle your complaint you have to have communicated with the Practice Manager about the problem.

[Lynne]

We've changed practices after 30 years at FHR as it seems wrong that the only way to get an appointment was to walk there (no-one ever answers the phone). The receptionist at Crystal palace Rd was a joy to talk to after the ones at Forest Hill Rd.

[uncleglen]

A nurse friend of mine has been waiting for 6 months for a straightforward operation which will enable her to get back to work. She has been virtually bed-ridden since Xmas.......the whole system is in meltdown

[LondonMix]

Are any of the local surgeries taking on new patients. I have to say the appointment and service issues at FH are far beyond acceptable. I've had two really bad experiences (similar to those described above) but have been afraid to leave as I'm not sure where is better. My husband is at the Gardens and gets appointments there much more readily and with better customer service.

Does anyone else have surgeries they have left for that they can recommend.