Religious state schools

[Earl Aelfheah]

So a new report (http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/dec/06/religious-teaching-school-assemblies-axe-report) has suggested (among other things) that "...segregation of young people into faith schools has ...been socially divisive, leading to greater misunderstanding and tension,?.

?Selection by religion segregates children not only according to different religious heritage but also, frequently and in effect, by ethnicity and socio-economic background. This undermines equality of opportunity and incentivises parents to be insincere about their religious affiliation and practice.?

Whilst you could reasonably suggest that this is stating the bleeding obvious, it does strike me that as time goes on, we really do need to address this issue. The fact that you may only have one decent, local state school, but have your children excluded on the ground of religious discrimination cannot be right.

With an increasingly diverse society, it has got to be in everyone's interests to ensure and end to this nonsense.

[Jeremy]

Yes, agree with all this, but I think you're largely preaching (ha) to the converted on the EDF.

Aside from the reasons you mention, it's simply not right to confuse impressionable kids, and fill their heads with rubbish about magic and fairies.

[Otta]

The thing is, as the tide swings more and more against the traditional CoE/Catholic state schools, more and more other religious schools are opening because of the bloody free school nonsense (and yes I do think it's utter bollocks).

I am seeing more and more muslim families sending their kids (especially girls) to islamic schools. I worry that in some cases these girls will never taste anything outside of their community, and will be quickly married off to produce the next generation.

I love a multicultural London, and I like to see different communities within it. But I don't like it when communities avoid mixing altogether.

[Alan Medic]

Magic and fairies? Don't you believe in Santa then Jeremy? There was a two part programme on BBC recently. A travel show where this English guy toured around Ireland. One of the characters he met was a long bearded fella who managed to have the proposed route on a new road changed so a fairy tree wouldn't be uprooted. I think what shocked the presenter during his travels was how schools in Northern Ireland are almost entirely segregated. What surprised me the most was that there were Protestants there who attended Irish language classes. It was a nice mini series and probably still on BBCi.

[philma]

I think it would be sad if school assemblies were banned.

I used to love the old hymns at school and never really understood the religious relevance, but purely enjoyed

the old English melodies.

:(

[Jeremy]

Ah, that's a different subject. Should enforced religious worship be removed from non-faith schools? And the answer is of course - yes.

No need to completely abolish assembly though. There are plenty of subjects to talk about, and plenty of trad/folky songs you can sing, without bashing on about God and Jesus. And there are much more important moral lessons to be learned in the world around us than in any religious text.

[WorkingMummy]

I am right with you, too, rahrahrah.

Religious discrimination based on the faith of the child's parents. It should be contrary to the Equality Act and for the life of me, I don't understand how it's legal, let alone tolerated, let alone actively encouraged.

[uncleglen]

And, of course,let's not forget that we are in a ridiculous situation where they are paid for by the tax-payers of this country. I have worked in 'faith' schools and they are divisive. Many students also spend all day Sunday in their churches and many muslims also spend evenings and weekend time in the mosque. Many students have been brainwashed since birth and they do not baulk at openly expressing their anti-gay feelings. The first encounters they quite possibly have of 'other' people is when they go to university.

[hpsaucey]

Ban all faith schools, all kids to go to their local school. Simples innit!

[maxxi]

Absolutely.

I went to a faith school and it WAS divisive.

I am, naturally, compensated by being one of the chosen and safe in the knowledge that I shall be dining on rice pudding with real jam whilst you are all burning in Hull (not a typo - non believers are in for a shock) but still, wot a chiz.

[Nigello]

Ban faith schools. If your religion is important to you, teach it at home and/or with the help of your (self-supporting) church/temple etc. Teach religion and faith in schools as part of a curriculum but, please, no more RC/C of E/Muslim faith schools which only serve to underline differences at a state level.

[miga]

Agree with all. And for real equality - ban private schools too, entrenching bourgeois values and class privilege and perpetuating unfairly won advantage!

Ah, hang on...this looks like the wrong meeting. What's that, the Trots meet next door on a Tuesday? Sorry, as you were...

[Louisa]

Whilst I agree that state subsidising of religious schooling isn't a great idea in the 21st century, I find it sad that as a society with an official state religion (CofE), we now no longer are accepting of the cultural influences Chritianity has had on this country. Removing Christian influences from assemblies in secular state schools, including carol services at Christmas and the harvest festival etc leave us as a society culturally weakened.

Louisa.

[Blah Blah]

I agree with the sentiment Louisa but am completely opposed to religious brainwashing of any kind.

Having said that, carols can be seen as part of a tradition as much as the xmaas tree, santa claus and all the other festival traditions that have nothing to do with religion. Christmas and the harvest festival are based entirely on pagan festivals btw, and have nothing whatsoever to do with religion or Christianity. It's possible to promote peace to all men without ramming the fear of an afterlife into young children.

[hpsaucey]

I think my kids' primary school has got it about right. Its a normal non-faith school.

They learn about various faiths and at Christmas the younger ones do a nativity play, the older ones sing at a 'carol' concert (seasonal songs/carols etc)... I'm an aetheist (with very fond memories of celebrations - christmas, Divali being from Leicester etc. at my own school). I personally think its important that children learn about various faiths - the way do to that is to be at an inclusive school, NOT to be ghettoised to varying extents in a faith school.

HP

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Whilst I agree that state subsidising of religious

> schooling isn't a great idea in the 21st century,

> I find it sad that as a society with an official

> state religion (CofE), we now no longer are

> accepting of the cultural influences Chritianity

> has had on this country. Removing Christian

> influences from assemblies in secular state

> schools, including carol services at Christmas and

> the harvest festival etc leave us as a society

> culturally weakened.

>

> Louisa.

[Otta]

Even Richard Dawkins is well known for loving Christmas Carols.

[Jeremy]

Yeah I think it's fine to embrace our Christian cultural heritage. You can still celebrate Christmas, Easter, harvest festival, whatever. Sing carols. Visit churches and cathedrals, and appreciate the art and music inspired by religion. It's a rich mythology, nobody is saying we need to pretend it doesn't exist.. as long as we don't confuse it with fact, or turn to it for moral teachings.

[????]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Even Richard Dawkins is well known for loving

> Christmas Carols.

I am an atheisst and have a bit of a penchant for victorian hyms in general (hated the Modern 60s dance dance, Cumbia(SP?) crap tho). But Abide With Me (Cup Final), Those in peril on the Sea and many of those still stir something when I hear them very occasionally (wedding/funerals....er, cup finals)

[Jeremy]

Let's not forget pancake day. Gotta have a few pancakes on shrove Tuesday.

[Blah Blah]

There's a really good book by Alain de Botton called 'R|eligion for Atheists' and he argues exactly that. That many of the traditions that emanate out of organised religion come from a place of genuinely trying to tame the more abhorrant aspects of human nature. To reject it all from a point of atheism is as foolish as to accept it all from a point of piousness

[adonirum]

Perhaps you should read Status Anxiety by him, Blah Blah.

No, you REALLY SHOULD read it.............................

[Blah Blah]

That's on my list of books to read as it happens. I think he's a very interesting writer.

[uncleglen]

Instead of having carols we should encourage the performance and singing of wonderful poetry that has been set to music e.g. Hiawatha's Wedding Feast(Longfellow), and The Lotus Eaters(Tennyson), Sea Fever (Masefield) any more?

[philma]

Life seemed to be so simple in the past. It feels like the whole country is becoming awash with rules and bureaucracy.

If we go about banning so many things that are part of our culture, just because they might have a religious influence, then we will be poorer for it. Most of us are atheist/agnostic these days, but that doesn't mean we can't appreciate and understand how and where these traditions have come from and why they are there. It shouldn't be this difficult, surely!

[Jeremy]

But nobody is suggesting that, philma.