Cameron and Europe

[Huguenot]

Why would anyone say that katienumbers?

Piersy was not only thinking for himself, but pointing out that he wasn't convinced of the merit in quoting other people.

[katie1997]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> Why would anyone say that katienumbers?

http://65.75.50.174/cms/upload/suprised.jpg

Ooooooh you got me, thats a very fucking good question. What time is it?

[????]

Brendan Wrote:

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> And no doubt you would have been just as cynical

> about the idea of a unified England 1000 years

> ago, a unified India 200 years ago or a unified

> South Africa 100 years ago.

>

>

> Granted they have all ended up as pretty shit

> places to live but the idea of disparate nations

> unifying under a centralised administration is

> demonstrably workable.

And none by the 'will of the people' - infact all by war/conquest/Dodgy alliances

I share your dream, all of you I'm not actually stupid enough not to see how great it 'would be'.... but am capable of seeing that it is that, just a dream. Theory and practice are miles apart. It is just airy fairy idealism. Seriously admit that and move on to something practical.....

[Brendan]

Perhaps something like a common market (that member states are free to join or leave as they please) which incorporates a common legal framework to facilitate economic and social interaction between the populations of the member states?

[Ridgley]

Can?t we enjoy other aspects of Europe, without being part of it do really have to pay millions and then be told how to govern our country never understood how it all works?

[mockney piers]

So basically we want all the benefits without letting anyone else benefit from it?

I think that's called having your cake and eating it, or being told to bog off as it's otherwise known.

Either be in or be out, can't have it half way.

Plus i really don't get a say in how this country is run (especially if 'No' wins tomorrow) so choose your poison Europe or Westminster basically; and I'm probably alone in this, give me a committee thrashing out compromises, over the presidential powers of the PM any day; long gone are the days of local privileges I'm afraid (unless it's being allowed to roll a cheese down a hill once a year).

[Loz]

What aspects of Europe would you like to be part of, Ridgley?

Other things to ponder: What would be the cost of being on the outside, looking in? Of not having the right to freedom of movement of goods, since Europe is our biggest trading partner? How much of what we pay in European bureaucracy would just be spent on UK bureaucracy anyway?

Loss of freedom of travel? Expect a massive return of very unhappy retirees from Spain and the south of France! (With a lots of Spanish and French there to wave goodbye at the airport and to make sure they didn't miss their plane...)

Most of the ways 'we are told to govern our country' involves incorporating the standards necessary to trade with Europe, so we're sort of stuck with that (since they would be bigger than us, we'd still be dancing to their tune). A lot of human rights stuff blamed on the EU have nothing to do with it at all, but a different and separate accord with the European Court of Human Rights.

[Loz]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> long gone are the

> days of local privileges I'm afraid (unless it's

> being allowed to roll a cheese down a hill once a

> year).

That's not allowed now.

[Ridgley]

I understand both points the aspect I like about Europe, you have mentioned in your thread freedom of movement etc???.. But what I am not comfortable about is the human rights yes I am for it in Principal but I feel it is sometimes abused there has been high profile cases regarding the human rights law. How does France and Italy get way with picking and choosing which of the law they wish to up hold and other laws they ignore I find it all mind boggling?

[Loz]

As I said, most human rights legislation has absolutely nowt to do with the EU.

We're not too different. After all, the ECHR said to the last Labour government that DNA retention times breached human rights and Gordon said, basically, 'sod off'.