Does anyone else miss TLS's + Bigbadwolf's posts?

[taper]

I had quite a few spats with TLS. I always thought he was a bit dozy, mildly unpleasant at times, and certainly had an unhealthy obsession with racial profiling. But he was deluded in his views rather than out and out malignant. My guess is admin banned him or limited him to certain elements of the Forum because he had a propensity to take threads wildly off topic, rather than because of his views.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm keen to not talk about Tony when he can't answer (directly) back - although his typing skills clearly aren't atrophying - but re-reading that other thread did bring back some points I want to make, but without trying to slander anyone!

1) The way an intelligent debate was swung around (by Tony) to the topic of race (repeatedly) was a real flashback - It happened time and time again on countless threads. I'm not saying that makes him racist by the way - just really really tiresome. It could have been about model trains and it would have had the same effect

2) I think the accusation of slandering Tony is overstated - I said something about a dark undercurrent (a la Widdecombe) and Jeremy said that one of his posts read like something the BNP would come out with. Not a massive slander either way and I don't think they misrepresent. Jeremy's comment in particular is verifiably correct - Again it doesn't mean Tony is racist, it was just pointed out to him that a the language he used in the small hours sounded like a BNP pamphlet -

3) He accused people ("the illuminati") of not engaging with him because they considered themselves superior - but I read repeated attempts by several people to directly address his points. He started asking me about Ireland and Irish and when I responded he accused me of moving the goalposts - maddening!

For Hal to describe that initial thread and argument from Tony as "coherent" beggars belief as well. Tony might be right, but coherent he ain't

I definitely agree with quids that when it came to Tony and Huguenot engaging things went off the rails - but nor do I think Tony is too much of a victim. Tony knows what he is doing all the time. He's a clever old cove

[????]

is this only applicable to some posters are older ones exempt?

[LegalEagle-ish]

I don't think TSL was very threatening, but it's a matter of perception. I don't find a lot threatening, but other people do. It might have been that Hugeunot genuinely thought TSL was trying to threaten him.

[????]

well at first it was clearly stated as by PM...but that's somehow been changed to a more nebulous general feeling. It's also possible it's just a load of made up crap of course.

[Keef]

Huguenot has never struck me as the sort of chap who would feel threatened too easily.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Quids. Do you know that admin hasn't had a word with Huguenot or are assuming he hasn't?

[LegalEagle-ish]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> well at first it was clearly stated as by PM...but

> that's somehow been changed to a more nebulous

> general feeling. It's also possible it's just a

> load of made up crap of course.

There is that of course!

For me I wasn't threatned by TSL I just found his constant references and dodgy analysis of race upsetting. I was married to my black ex-husband for 12 yrs and have two mixed race kids. I was called ni**er lover and other pleasantries by some on the estate I lived on (until I kicked the shit out of someone) and I suppose I may be more sensitive to comments on race as a result. I had the usual, having to hide my husband in order to hail a cab, women hiding their purse etc as he approached and funny looks when we were out so my antennae might be slightly more attuned than someone who hasn't had those experiences.

[Brendan]

Really? In London?

Just goes to show how naive I am. I really do seem to believe people are better than they actually are.

[????]

I believe admin has more important things to get on with, life for intsance, so feel a bit that I've banged on a lot - but firstly the original post by Hugen. is grossly insulting and disgusting, up their with BBWs 'raping father' crap. I'd feel it was pretty inapropriate if TLS was Nick Griffin himself; secondly it contains, what now appears to be a piece of huge misinformation...at best. And this about someone who can't answer back - I don't feel I'm alone in feeling this is actually pretty outrageous.

As I said in my original post, I'm a bit uncomfortable about TLS' ban but back to my point 1, this is a decent forum well edited generally so I respect the editorial policy as a whole so I'm not fighting that. Hugenot's post is beyond the pale IMO and he should prove his accusations or apologise in my view and the fact that it's still up is probably due to circumstance but is unfortunate. I will now retire from this thread.

[LegalEagle-ish]

We were married in 1990 so it was some time ago, and comments became less hostile, like, 'I don't like black people, but your husband is ok, he's like one of us'. That kind of thing. Or 'Black people are ok, but I wouldn't go out with one. They smell funny.'

Kind of pissed me off on a regular basis.

[Brendan]

I've not bother to read all of this quids but if there is an inappropriate post, report it.

Admin would have only taken action against users if their posts were reported as offensive and probably only banned them after getting post after post reported on a regular basis after issuing warning after warning.

[????]

I have yesterday

[daizie]

LegalEagle-ish Wrote:

------------------------------------------------------->

>

> For me I wasn't threatned by TSL I just found his

> constant references and dodgy analysis of race

> upsetting. I was married to my black ex-husband

> for 12 yrs and have two mixed race kids. I was

> called ni**er lover and other pleasantries by some

> on the estate I lived on (until I kicked the shit

> out of someone) and I suppose I may be more

> sensitive to comments on race as a result. I had

> the usual, having to hide my husband in order to

> hail a cab, women hiding their purse etc as he

> approached and funny looks when we were out so my

> antennae might be slightly more attuned than

> someone who hasn't had those experiences.

Legal, this could be interpreted as a touch of the old paranoia and/or looking for a scapegoat or a fight. This is only a suggestion, but given your aggression and violence surely one can be excused for wondering .

[LegalEagle-ish]

Yes it could, if you didn't know me.

Do you think the things that were said or done above are acceptable by the way Daizie?

Is it ok to have someone one call you a ni**er lover for being married to black man, or cabs to drive off as soon as they realise you are with a black man?

[LegalEagle-ish]

Oh and the guy I kicked the shit out of had just punched his son because his son had beaten my little boy with a piece of wire and I'd complained to his dad. When I said to him that maybe the reason his kid is bullying smaller kids is because of the fact his father thinks it's normal to punch him in the face, he asked me if I wanted some, and punched me in the face, making me fall backwards onto my 4 yr old son. So I went mad and beat him up. I'd been doing kick boxing for a certain amount of time and when my insticts kicked in, I left him with a face covered in blood.

I took my son home and was shaking and crying, but everyone had seen me beat the guy up, so no-one said any more blatantly repulsive racist things to my face again.

[daizie]

LegalEagle-ish Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes it could, if you didn't know me.

>

> Do you think the things that were said or done

> above are acceptable by the way Daizie?

>

> Is it ok to have someone one call you a ni**er

> lover for being married to black man, or cabs to

> drive off as soon as they realise you are with a

> black man?

And you dont know Tony . Of course they are not acceptable Legal, but it doesnt make Tony a racist *Hits head on wall* arghh .

[Ladymuck]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Really? In London?

Yes Brendan...really. Having been happily married to a black man for 31 years, I can confirm all of it (and much much worse).

Generally: I would just like to say that I find some of the content on this thread far uglier than anything I have ever read by BBW...though I accept that I have missed some of his posts, it seems. I cannot comment on TLS as I am unable to recall his posts.

Daizie: I bet when you started this thread you didn't see any of this coming! Eight pages? Jeez...

I too am retiring from this thread.

[LegalEagle-ish]

daizie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LegalEagle-ish Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Yes it could, if you didn't know me.

> >

> > Do you think the things that were said or done

> > above are acceptable by the way Daizie?

> >

> > Is it ok to have someone one call you a ni**er

> > lover for being married to black man, or cabs

> to

> > drive off as soon as they realise you are with

> a

> > black man?

>

> And you dont know Tony . Of course they are not

> acceptable Legal, but it doesnt make Tony a racist

> *Hits head on wall* arghh .

Obviously, it wasn't TSL who said or did these things to me. The only reason I mentioned it was to explain to you that because I have seen overt and covert racism first hand, I may be better able to spot it than someone who hasn't. Simples.

[daizie]

My feeling is no one should be allowed to accuse anyone of racism on a hunch/feeling without evidence. It belittles true racism .

[LegalEagle-ish]

So what would you define as true racism then Dazie?

[daizie]

Well not a hunch or a feeling thats for sure .

[LegalEagle-ish]

Do you think that saying that you wouldn't live in an area that is predominantly black because the crime rate will be higher as black people commit more crimes, to be racist?

[daizie]

Pfft, you cant even show us any proof . Clear off ya Bully .

[Mick Mac]

I think this thread should continue. Its seems its the only Lounge thread worth commenting on in BBWs/TLS's absence. Which must have some sort of satisfying irony for them if they are looking in.

To answeer Daisie's question (again) - I would say they are missed even more now than I thought they were when the forum reopened 5 days ago.

Wolfs comment about the Lounge moving from a comprehensive to a grammar is quite apt.

I think BBW went too far some times, of course we know that. I think TLS's main error was the amount and length of his posts rather than the content.

Lots of people have made good defences of these two people - and stood up to the other people who sought to attribute racism to TLS incorrectly.

Its makes for an interesting thread, but for once this is not just about the thread, its about two groups within the Lounge who clash. One group has more weight than the other.

If there was a button that said "I liked this post" then I feel BBW would have many more of these to his credit than reported posts.

With only negative reporting on the forum, then BBW was always going to top the "report this post" charts.

Since the forum has reopened the Lounge has seen much less activity.