School banding tests.

[citizenED]

Does anyone have experience of non-participation in secondary school's banding tests for admission to Yr7? We have been invited to take our Y6 son for three tests over the next couple of weeks. The implication in the letters is that if the kids don't sit the test they will have their aplication to the school withdrawn despite two of the schools offering only one date for the test. I suspect that this is not within the rules and that we would be within our rights to tell the schools that we won't be attending.

We'd appreciate any advice.

Citizen

[redjam]

I sympathise. My daughter had two lots of tests today - one in the morning for one school and another in the afternoon. She's got more coming up in a few weeks, including one for a school that is sixth on our list, which I'm not even sure I can be bothered for us to attend as she's so unlikely to get in.

But ? that said, we knew about these tests from the beginning - they're all listed in each school's application criteria. So they're not a surprise - even the dates are publicised in advance. And many schools use the results from these tests to allocate their places (to make sure they get a fair mix of abilities) so I can see why they need to do them.

So overall, yes, it's a pain but I think the schools hold all the cards and are well within their rights to insist your child takes them. You could try kicking up a fuss but personally I wouldn't be happy gambling with my child's prospects like that. From what I've seen so far, the banding tests are not particularly scary as they're more just to get a feel for the child's overall levels rather than anything more in-depth.

You would think there would be a way that primary schools could pass on information about their children to avoid them having to take multiple tests, but sadly no. My own strategy was to bribe my daughter with chocolate and tell her not to stress about it. Seemed to work.

[Mrs TP]

Echo all redjam says, a spot on summary of how it works. You can get books on sample questions so you and your child have an idea of the types of questions but really not worth in depth swotting up and there is no pressure at all to do well.

Beware most secondary schools test every half-term / term when the children are in.

[intexasatthe moment]

I can see why this has been moved to the Family section but sometimes it makes me sad that education isn't seen as being of interest to everyone . I guess it's inevitable that people are only interested in stuff when it directly affects them . By which time ,in the case of education ,it's often a question of "do I really wish my child to be involved in making a point/testing the system/trying to change things ?"

Children having to sit multiple banding tests within the same LA should be one of the things that a Schools Admission Forum looks at and strives to ensure doesn't happen . Sadly it's no longer compulsary for local authorities to have such Forums .And Southwark doesn't seem to have one .At least as far as I can tell .

So schools can carry on ,after all,they're "well within their rights " and we all know about these tests in advance so .....mmm,what ? If you don't want your child sitting multiple tests apply to schools that don't have them ? Spoilt for choice .

And after all they're not exams assessing knowledge ,only grading exercises . So no need for anxiety . And they ensure that schools have a mix of abilities don't they ? In Harris's case the tests are designed to reflect the national spread of abilities as opposed to that of the cohort applying and Kingsdale's are part of an admissions policy so opaque that I doubt it meets the Schools Admissions Code so that's all good isn't it ?

Apologies to OP for such a negative response ,hopefully someone else can offer you more practical support .

[tomskip]

The banding tests are a pita, and when it came to applying for our second child we certainly didn't bother with sending him for the tests at those schools where we had no chance of getting a place (utter waste of time).

However, while we don't have a Schools Admissions Forum, I can't see what you hope to achieve, op, by boycotting them? In Lewisham, certainly, they are used to ensure that a school takes an even mix of abilities. Harris and Kingsdale are a law unto themselves (another reason why an Admissions Forum would be welcome) as ITATM says.

[Pickle]

Interesting, I didn't know this happened here.

In NZ, the year before secondary, we all had to sit a test. We weren't told what it was, just that we had to do it. The results were then given to the secondary schools and used to put us in "streams" according to ability, so I guess it's a fairly widespread practice.

[citizenED]

Thanks for all the responses. They generally tell me what I expected and I feel I am in a Josef K type excerise in futility, except that, in the DfE School Admission Code it clearly states that "Admission authorities must not refuse to admit a child solely because they are unable to sit the test on the allocated date. In this circumstance they could arrange for another test to be conducted, or seek other evidence of the child?s academic ability." Two of the schools have only offered one date. I'm loathe to take a day off work (even if I could) to take him to a test for a school that he almost certainly will not get into.

I've written back to one school to tell them that we cannot take him. If anyone has taken the route of not attending the test - could they report back.

Cheers,

Citizen

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Citizen,

I would advise that your child does take the banding tests. There may be a second date a week or so later for example for children who are sick and unable to take the test on the exam date. Most admissions policies would in theory admit children if they haven't taken the test, but if the test isn't taken they go to the end of the queue behind everyone else who has taken a banding test. This means you could only secure a place at one of the schools if they were undersubscribed. Southwark used to run a banding test for all its pupils during a school day . The problem was that all the secondaries in Southwark started to run their own tests (all of them are Academies or Voluntary Aided so run their own admissions policies) which meant the Southwark one had no use, thus it was abandoned.

I would suggest that you see if any of your son's friends are taking the same tests and if their parents can take them rather than him missing the banding tests (this is quite a common practice). If not speak to his class teacher, they may know which children are doing that test. I do know of a case 3 or 4 years ago where a boy didn't get offered Harris Boys even though he lived really close to the school and should have got in, simply as he missed the banding test. In schools that have bands, the last place distances can vary greatly between bands so your child could be offered a place if they fall into band x but not y in a particular year, so you may end up with a school you didn't expect via the banding system. By not turning up, unless eg you live very close to Charter or he has an older sibling you increase your chances that Southwark finds a school place for your son!

If it turns out to be impossible for your son to attend any of the banding tests, I would suggest you contact the schools as soon as possible in case they would be willing to accommodate your son on a slightly later date with eg children who were sick on banding day.

Renata

[katgod]

I am no expert on this but I think a leading body - possibly the Sutton Trust - identified these tests as one of he various ways that schools discriminate against students from disadvantaged backgrounds. Citizen ED I do not mean to suggest that your child is disadvantaged - you are taking an informed and reasoned decision on whether or not to take them. Other children's parents may well think 'can't be bothered' with no thought whatsoever as to the consequences. Or may well be in a work environment where short notice absence is simply not possible. The Lewisham model of primary schildren sitting the test in school time would avoid all this.

[LondonMix]

Katgod-- the Sutton Trust did think children having to sit multiple tests could disadvantage certain pupils for a few reasons.

1. It can create the impression that the school admits based on high ability even though that is not the case. This in turn discourages less capable students from applying. Given that many schools using banding use fair banding (i.e. bands are determined by the applicant pool rather than being proportional to national ability etc), this would lead to schools with a higher proportion of high ability students, than the national average. Educating parents and students can overcome this but its still a risk

2. For the reason you've already said.

The Sutton Trust supports banding in general but thinks all schools in an area should use the same test to avoid multiple tests having to be taken and ideally it should be taken by all pupils at school. I think Lewishams Admission Forum has had some success with getting most of their schools to work based on a single test with Habs being one of the exceptions.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi all, as I mentioned above Southwark did have a similar test to Lewisham. Unlike Southwark, many of Lewisham's secondaries are under LA control. As all of Southwark's schools are either faith or academies, they all set their own admissions policies. It was absolutely pointless Southwark children sitting a banding test when the schools in the Borough were all using their own testing protocols. I do agree with your inferences that where there is a skewed examination pool that this can lead to a skewed intake, but without the admissions for Southwark secondaries being under our control, there isn't much we can do to address this. In Southwark parents can put down 6 different schools with 6 different admissions policies!

Renata

[LondonMix]

I agree with all of that Renanta.

If there was an admission forum that could speak to all of the schools (with which schools would still have to liaise despite being non-LA), it might facilitate all the local secondaries agreeing to a common test.

As it is now, with no forum, coordinated activity is impossible. I'm not saying all schools would sign up to a test created by Southwark (Harris has its own standard test it uses across various boroughs and would likely not want to vary that just in Southwwark) but it might be possible to convince the other schools to use the Harris test as the common test and to allow for it to be taken at primary school rather than outside of school hours.

I'm not blaming anyone, just hoping the situation can be better in future than it is today.

[Saffron]

citizenED Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DfE

> School Admission Code it clearly states that

> "Admission authorities must not refuse to admit a

> child solely because they are unable to sit the

> test on the allocated date. In this circumstance

> they could arrange for another test to be

> conducted, or seek other evidence of the child?s

> academic ability."

Regarding the use of "other evidence", my understanding is that would only be applicable in the case of exceptional mitigating circumstances, eg someone transferring in from overseas at short notice. Otherwise, this creates a paperwork nightmare as far as trying to make a standard assessment of multiple students based on portfolios, rather than blanket testing. Assessing portfolios is hugely labour intensive. Testing is a symptom of the industrialisation of education. :-/ I agree with other comments regarding the differences between Southwark and Lewisham, and hope things could improve in the future, though I think change on this likely to be very slow. An essential top down change in education infrastructure would be best imho.

If it's a matter of getting your child to/from the test, could anyone from the Forum help? Would any regular posters have children testing at the same school(s)? xx

[Renata Hamvas]

Until a couple of years ago Southwark had an admissions forum. The government then decided to remove all their powers so it became pointless to have one! If a school is not administering their admissions policy propery than you can go to the school admissions ombudsman.

Unfortunately Londonmix I can't see this situation improving! (to have a co-ordinated admissions system we would need to have the Southwark secondaries coming under LA control once more.)

Renata

[brockleymum]

The Lewisham model of children sitting tests in school time is no more! There wasn't a Lewisham Admission test at the end of the last academic year so it'll be interesting seeing how that affects admissions as many LA schools are not doing separate tests! Maybe that will change in the future to ensure a comprehensive intake?!

[IAM]

Hi brockleymum,

Is that possibly because, as of this year's applications, Lewisham have got rid of all banding and are doing distance-only from now on? That's what I heard when visiting Forest Hill Boys school.

[brockleymum]

Yep that's right - no tests at the end of year 5, and therefore no banding! So now individual schools doing their own tests doesn't seem so bad! I'm wondering if Lewisham schools will follow Southwark's lead?!

[tomskip]

It's infuriating all this isn't it? Most of us just want our children to go to a reasonably local school with reasonable results given their mixed intake (and most of SE London will have a mixed intake with odd unusual pockets like Dulwich Village to liven things up a bit). But NO! it seems to be impossible. And you really do have to be a clued-up, sharp-elbowed and pretty determined parent to ensure your child gets the best offer possible. Of course there are thousands of children in Southwark and Lewisham who don't have such an adult on their side.

[citizenED]

Thanks to all who have contributed. Much good advice. I have written to the Head at Haberdashers to ask for an alternative date, one that I can actually make and await a reply.

In the meantime, I have sharpened my elbows, dashed my principles and opened a new thread asking if anyone is going over to New Cross on Friday.

Citizen

[tomskip]

Ah. Habs was the one we just didn't bother with second time around.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Brockleymum, most of the schools that used the Lewisham banding test are under Lewisham's control, ie are Lewisham secondaries so will be under the umbrella of the Lewisham's admissions system, so it is highly unlikely that there will be a mass movement towards individual banding tests.

Hi CitizenED, I will make enquiries too about an alternative date in your case, good luck in finding a kind parent who can take them over to the test.

I agree tomskip, the minefield of school admissions is not a user friendly one for parents to navigate through, particularly in Southwark where there is such a variation in admissions policies.

Renata