Peckham Rye Online Residents' Survey

[Gavin Edwards]

???? if you live in Peckham Rye ward, give me your address details or PM or send them to the hotmail address above and a Labour canvasser of my description would be happy to make sure we have knocked on your door and that of your neighbours.

[Ted Max]

Don't tell 'im, Pike.

[Gavin Edwards]

For anyone doubting the seriousness of the problem in Southwark on recycling, see the latest post on Peckham Rye Labour Blog: http://peckhamryelabour.blogspot.com/2009/11/recycling-in-southwark-now-were-6th.html

Incredibly, Southwark has now gone from 10th worst in England to 6th worst.

Gavin

[????]

Nearly as bad as the UK being the only major economy still in a recession maybe......

[willow]

I'm curious as to what the Labour candidates are suggesting that they could do better with recycling. Southwark collects more materials than most local authorities. Certainly there are very few councils that collect mixed plastics. They collect door to door on estates, which again is very rare. I'm not sure that focusing on tetra paks is really the answer seeing as they make up less than 3% of the waste stream. The council can only do so much to make people recycle - people have to take responsibility for their actions by making use of the service. You can lead to horse to water etc. I'm not sure you could accuse the council of not neglecting recycling. As I understand it the recycling rate as increased massively under this council admininstration.

[????]

Personally I wish politicians would keep their crap off this forum - all of them. Contact details ok but this sort of stuff and TJMPS propaganda posts. Maybe there could be a link to each parties website or something and councillor contact details. We have some decent political debates on here not their petty point scoring rubbish.

[Gavin Edwards]

Willow. I disagree that recycling Tetra paks won't improve Southwark's performance on this issue. 3% is not an insignificant proportion of waste. We should be giving residents this option, and look to other councils who are vastly outperforming Southwark.

I'm afraid the buck has to stop with council on this one. The figures quoted on the Peckham Rye Labour Blog compare councils across the country, in all types of circumstances, and the fact is Southwark is right down the bottom of the league table. The key measure of success on recycling is the % of waste recycled and composted. There's no way around the fact that 20.89% is simply too low and there aren't any mitigating circumstances that can excuse this situation. Almost everyone else in England is able to do better, and if we really care about this issue we have to ask why Southwark is being left behind.

It's an issue of political priorities - and for the Lib Dems this clearly hasn't been put far enough up the list.

[????]

Good that's sorted - It's all the LIberal Democrats fault clearly. How are you lot doing at getting this couuntry out of recession?

[Gavin Edwards]

???? - Fair enough, I'd agree EDF shouldn't be dominated by politicians. But I don't think there's much danger of that from what I've seen. That said, if there are issues of genuine local concern - like recycling - I thinks its fair enough to post about the possible political causes and solutions to these problems. Despite its current low reputation, politics is the way we debate and address these issues.

On the recession - I'd be happy to debate this with you if you'd like to start a new thread. But then again, you'd probably think that's too "political" ;-)

[????]

...but you don't do you. Anyone who watched the Newsnight debate on The Queens Speech earlier would have just seen Ed Balls and two people from the Tories and Liberal Democrats (at least I recognise Balls) just trot out what they see as their key message, stay on message, fail to answer questions from presenter or opposition and try and score political points - it's pathetic I have contempt for you in a generic sense - i'm sure you're not all like that personally, indeed you seem a nice enough person as I'm sure you are but this thread isn't in all honesty about a 'debate' is it Gavin?

Edited to correct name

[Gavin Edwards]

. . . but I think you're wrong to take that generic view of politics. OK, some national politicians have a developed the bad habit of sounding like robots, but does that mean we should write off the whole thing, from lowly council candidates to everyone else who decides they want to stand for an election? Cynicism is as much a weakness as slavish point scoring, and it leads us down a path which stops politics from making a difference. I don't want to sound too corny, but I think that's what it comes down to: politics can change things. If we all give up on politics (and ALL politicians), then we're left with nothing but unfettered free markets and a completely incoherent debate.

And this thread IS about a debate. Southwark's recycling is too low. One of the reasons it might never go up is because nobody knows it's too low in the first place. Hence the blog entry... http://peckhamryelabour.blogspot.com/

[PeckhamRose]

The point of this thread was that rather badly thought out survey.

Now you have had people respond to it.

WHAT are you going to do with the limited amount of information you received from that survey.

Knowing what our thoughts are is not enough.

At least Boris (and I did not vote for him) does what he said he would, and as far as I am aware doesn't waste money constantly asking our opinions. He knows what he wants to do. He tells us what he is going to do. He's voted in. Then he does what he said he was going to do.

Common sense should 'dictate' the rest. Of course Tetrapak recycling should be addressed. Ban companies from using Tetrapak. But stop asking us what we think when you know you can't do anything about it! Use your common sense. What irks you? It probably irks us too.

Now, stick to the topic - the questionnaire in this case, or I'll set the Administrator on you. He doesn't need focus groups to do what he does.

[VikkiM]

We now have over 200 responses (electronic and paper). We?ve also had a great deal of info on the doorstep in the last month ? we?ve spoken to approx. 550 people ? who have fed back a whole range of issues and concerns. I think that?s been invaluable. Whilst I agree that a lot of frustrations are shared many are particular to some groups of people or some geographical areas.

Together with other Labour campaigners and Southwark?s Labour councillors we?re just in the process of finalising our first set of policies that we would commit to deliver if Labour wins control of the council from the Lib-Dem and Tory coalition. Alternatively, these will form the basis of what we will be pressing the Lib Dems and Tories to do in the coming months and after the election, should they continue to run the council.

On your other points, any money wasted is either our own or the local Labour Party?s. And as for Boris, does he really tell us what he?s going to do? I don?t remember him mentioning anything during the election about the vicious cuts he now plans to make to the bus subsidy?.

As for the topic, if others go off topic, it?s difficult for us not to too! Am happy to be PM?d or emailed on [email protected] about non-survey related stuff or alternatively, get posting recycling queries and comments on the Peckham Rye blog.

[iamyamyam]

Vikki, I think it's disengenuous to suggest that the survey is there to obtain peoples opinions. It appears to me to be full of loaded questions intended soley to get people to complain about the councils performance.

What is missing from your surevy and your blog is that we already have 3 labour councillors in Peckham Rye and have done for a long time.

Why don't the existing labour councillors know what is going on? (This must be the case if your survey is to find out what peoples opinions are)

Why aren't the existing labour councillors speaking to 550 people?

Are the existing labour councillors not up to the job?

If you 3 get elected will you be any different to the existing 3 labour councillors?

[*Bob*]

We received our survey a few days back.

Are we supposed to fill it in, or should we let our son do it at nursery?

Hard to tell, from the questions.

[*Bob*]

1. Which of the following are you most worried about:

a) Litter

b) Parking fines

c) Nuclear war

d) X-Factor Result

2. "Global warming is bad": agree or disagree?

(Hands in the air) 1 2 3 4 5 (Just don't care)

3. Complete the following slogan in no less than ten words:

"I *heart* Labour because ________________________

4. If you think we've missed anything, and your handwriting is really, really small, please let us know by writing your comments in the miniscule box below.

(No pictures of knobs etc, please)

[VikkiM]

Iamyamyam I do think we?re been over lots of this above?

At the risk of repeating what both Gavin and I have said several times, it strikes me as pretty silly to use a survey for reasons other than to gauge people?s opinions so we can use these ideas to help shape Labour?s priorities. What on earth is the use of the survey is we don?t do that?! And, as we have both said above, it?s just one of the things we are doing, those that have filled it in, thank you, it?s genuinely useful, those that haven?t, I respect that view.

On the 550 people that we?ve covered in the last month I wouldn?t want to claim that this had all been done by the three of us! Many of these contacts have been made by other local Labour campaigners including the current Peckham Rye councillors. The case work that was generated ? from housing problems to flytipping to problems with social care has all been done by the local Peckham Rye councillors. That is alongside the casework that reaches them from email or post or phone or at their surgeries. They don?t have a blog and they don?t post on here but then there are plenty of councillors and candidates that don?t. However just because you aren?t on online forums or blogs, doesn?t mean you?re not doing anything ? probably quite the opposite and you?re too busy actually doing stuff!

If you read the blog you?ll notice, for example, the very recent questioning of the council executive on primary school places done by Robert Smeath ? an issue that has received a lot of prominence on this forum.

And *Bob* the survey was never meant to be a test of IQ! One of the problems with council bureaucracy and local politics is that it tends to be inaccessible.

Finally one tiny plea from me is really about the slightly aggressive tone with which every posts on here! I?m a local woman who loves her community and wants to try to do my bit to make Peckham Rye a great place to live. If we share different values I think that?s a shame, as I?ve always been proud of what I believe in. However, I?d never dream of speaking to people in the way that people comment on here! If you saw me pottering around East Dulwich I?m sure you?d think I was really quite normal and exactly the same as you?

[PeckhamRose]

It's not you we're being pee'd off about, it's your choices.

You should learn from the way we are and realise we're intelligent and caring, but questionnaires like this (and the topic was the questionnaire) was just - well, you know. *Bob* said it all, really.

Don't start criticising us. That's not a great way to engage with us.

You're the outsider.

You want to do well, and fair do's, like, but use a different approach.

[first mate]

Slightly off topic but relevant: could we have a dedicated politics/soapbox section so that those forumites who are already politicians or looking to stand can take their various "lines" to one area? I just don't feel that comfortable with general threads being mixed up with politics, with a capital P, and party speak.

[VikkiM]

Hi Peckham Rose

It wasn't criticism, it was just a polite request. My experiences of finding builders or seamstresses on this forum were slightly different in tone ;-)

And yes, the thread was about the survey but inevitably people raise other stuff. Iamyamyam used his post above to criticise the Labour councillors.

On difference approaches, I've taken your point about the survey, I hope you take mine about the fact we're doing different stuff. On Crystal Palace Road last night for example, some people wanted to talk for 15 or 20 mins, others didn't want to talk at all. Lots of people have taken the survey as, even though there has been criticism here, it's a quick and easy way for people with less time to get their views heard.

[PeckhamRose]

Brilliant idea, first mate.

Only problem may be some people think everything is political.

But I agree a dedicated politicians section for them to let us know what they want from us and us to tell them what we want is a good idea.

Admin?

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Slightly off topic but relevant: could we have a

> dedicated politics/soapbox section so that those

> forumites who are already politicians or looking

> to stand can take their various "lines" to one

> area? I just don't feel that comfortable with

> general threads being mixed up with politics, with

> a capital P, and party speak.

[Sqiggles]

Does it not drive anyone else mad that the survey spells receive "recieve"?

I agree, very poor survey, particularly the first question.

We rented a house in the US on holdiay. There were two wheelie bins, one for recycling, and one for other waste. So you could put all the glass, paper, card, tins etc in one bin, and it was then sorted after collection. Why can't Southwark do that?

[first mate]

Hi PR,

Of course we must all talk politics, that's okay and just what this forum is for, as you say, all of life is political -with a small p. It's just if you are a politican, with a big P, whether active or seriously would-be, then I just don't entirely like that stuff being all mixed up with the views of us regular punters. So, a dedicated section would keep everything cleaner and clearer.

[PeckhamRose]

Sqiggles Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We rented a house in the US on holdiay. There

> were two wheelie bins, one for recycling, and one

> for other waste. So you could put all the glass,

> paper, card, tins etc in one bin, and it was then

> sorted after collection. Why can't Southwark do

> that?

Very soon you will. Promise. I did Not Tell You That.

[sophiesofa]

Not many houses (especially the ones converted into flats) don't have room for 2 wheelie bins, even the smaller version ones. I think the blue box system is quite good, but even they take up too much space.