Reassurance needed on baby led weaning...

[snowboarder]

Hi

My parenting dilemmas continue...

Now that my baby is 6 months old we have started tentatively giving him finger food, we have the book on baby led weaning and are more or less following the principles, with some yoghurt and a bit of a helping hand thrown in. I like the philosophy and it seems to make sense, and in any event I'm not sure I'm up to puree-ing my evenings away (they are v short anyway!).

BUT - Our sleep problems continue as does daytime milk refusal (bad sleeping and feed by night not day). So all the helpful people I talk to say I NEED to get food down baby during the day, and the only way to ensure he gets food is to puree. So I'm having a bit of a wobble about baby led weaning.

I just wanted a bit of reassurance really that I'm not doing it all WRONG still - the book says food is not really related to sleep anyway, and the fact that there's milk on offer but not being taken during the day is an issue but I kind of think he takes what he needs when he needs it.

Thank you....everyone is so helpful! I daren't go see the HV....

[Jessie]

Hi Snowboarder

My boy's nearly 5 so I'm a bit rusty on this, but I'd suggest you give him a little bit of puree, see if that helps and makes a difference to his sleep? My son was a bad sleeper till he was on solids, and there's nothing like a good dosage of carbs before sleep for a good night. These books and plans don't need to be followed to the word - when my boy was a baby I borrowed a bit from here, a bit from there and managed to muddle through. Baby-led weaning is great, but millions of babies are reared on puree and thrive on it. We did a mix of the two and now my boy eats all sorts. Hope that helps. Basically, try to follow your instinct, try not to worry, I'm sure you're doing a great job,

Jess

[The Nappy Lady]

SB I am with Jess, started with Baby Led but now doing purees too to get volume down her and sleeping has improved massively. It's not so bad - do a big cook up at weekend when other half is around and freeze I. Ice cube trays then bag and label and it lasts a good while. Also now at 12 months I often keep back a bit of our meal and whizz up for her so no extra work really. Weetabix with warm milk and fruit pur?e for breakfast dead easy (you can buy baby cereals to mix with milk at first if you prefer) oh and buy a few jars too - it isn't the end of the world and my little one loves them - I was I ititially disgusted but then thought what the heck it's all food and if she is eating I am happy.

True food may not help sleep right away, but it will in time and I think your boy is ready and you need to start getting some solids into him if he shows willing.

Molly

xx

[fmay]

I agree...it won't pay to be too strict about 'baby led weaning' only. What's the harm in having normal meals/purees etc and letting them get plenty of finger food practice too, with snacks and finger food alongside the porridge/pureed meals?

I think food does definitely make a difference with sleeping and generally being more settled. They get to a weight and age when they need it and I found porridge (or something carb laden) for tea made my little one sleep much longer in the eves.

[sb]

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[Belle]

I get a few pots of organix purees/rachel's first yoghurts and ella's kitchen purees to have in so that when i need them - esp if baby is tired, which affects how he eats - they're there. In BLW terms it still 'works' in that he prefers to steer the spoon in or eg this morning my husband gave him toast with puree spread on it for breakfast, went down a treat. Also find things like breadsticks/pitta and hummous work well, basically things that have instant gratification! Just back from hols and we were giving him french bread dipped in whatever sauce we were having at lunch (eg spaghetti with clams) and that worked really well.

[The Nappy Lady]

The thing I found with BLW what that initially Charlotte really went for it, but then the novelty wore off, and frankly she just couldn't be bothered to eat! Once I started with the mush I found I could get a lot into her in a very short space of time....so she is now on 3 really good meals a day, with finger snacks in between. Lunch and Dinner both consist of a main course, plus a dessert of either fruit puree or yoghurt, often followed by pieces of fruit - melon the current favourite. It amazes me just how much she will pack away.

One good tip - I mix her daily dose of vitamins (which they now recommend from 6 months onwards) with the last bit of her yoghurt so a) I remember to give them to her and b) she eats it without even noticing.

I can see the sense in BLW, but I do think a combined approach has a great deal going for it.

Molly

x

[Mellors]

I did BLW with No 2 (couldn't be @rsed to faff about like I did with No 1), and the only thing I would say is that it took a lot longer for her to eat a reasonable amount (more like 8/9 months than 6 months - it was pretty nerve shredding).

Don't feel bad about using jars/tubs if you want to supplement - those Organix/Ellas Kitchen/Plum Baby jobs have nothing but fruit/veg in them, its just they have done the work for you. They sell a big variety in the chemist on North Cross Rd. Whatever stops you going demented with it in my view! Yoghurt, yoghurt, yoghurt as well. They love the stuff. Avocado and cheese have loads of cals in as well if they will only eat a little bit.

You have my sympathy I find that whole weaning thing a really boring faff.

If you can bear with it though, tne benefit of BLW weaning is that I took the little one to Wagamama at lunch today (age 13 months) where she merrily chomped down Duck Gyosa and a mini portion of Chicken Ramen with no help (although I am glad they were cleaning the floor not me). No messing about with baby food.

[Pickle]

I did a bit of a BLW/puree mixture with my daughter (now 15 months), as like Mellors really couldn't be bothered with the faff 2nd time round (these poor little 2nd children!) - she was a reluctant eater so after a few weeks of stressing trying to convince her that butternut squash puree was the most delicious thing in the world I stopped forcing her and started just giving her bits of whatever we were having.

Once she was more happily taking food (around 8 months) I supplemented her finger foods with a few purees - mainly soups which I make for my son anyway, which she would happily take off a spoon in between mouthfuls of bread/toast etc.

She's now a very independent eater, and I never make special food for her and haven't done since she was about 11 months old. She will eat whatever we're having, and is very easy to take out for meals - spaghetti bolognaise being a favourite for us all - I'm happy for her to eat it by herself as long as it's not me cleaning up after her ;-)

[snowboarder]

Hmm so total wobble on BLW now. Oh dear! I have just investigated my cupboard to find I do not actually know how to work complicated never used wedding present blender and hand blender (difference? Why do I have both? Also seem to have a separate juicer...).

Molly/everyone do you actually spoon feed the mush?

The only thing bubs ate today was toast and laughing cow cheese. Feel like rubbish mummy!

Thanks all though! x

[Pickle]

With my son I spoon fed him the mush - but then he was like a little baby bird simply opening his mouth, with his hands at his sides, waiting for me to spoon it in. Daughter has always been all about the interactive experience, so while I did attempt to use a spoon she generally ended up doing it using a combination of fingers, face planting into the bowl like a cat, dipping things in etc. If you're happy with mess (which I'm not, but I've had to relinquish control to a toddler) just let them get on with it and use a spoon when you can :)

Thankfully now she's getting quite good at using a spoon without too much mess, so things like yoghurts no longer involve an hour long clean up operation!

[Mellors]

Funny, mine are the same as Pickle's - boy No 1 would happily sit there and be fed by a spoon, whereas girl No 2 has never let you put a spoon anywhere near her, she is far too independent. I have tried to spoon in things like yoghurt, but she just tries to grab the spoon off me and it goes everywhere - hence I try to mainly give finger foods so there is less clearing up.

I recommend either a highchair with a built in tray or a tray that sticks to the table top if you have a pull up high chair (Tripp Trapp do one). Anything you can lift off, scrape the mess into the bin and give a quick rinse. Long sleeved bibs help (plastic ones that you can rinse are best, or normal ones and roll their sleeves up). Plus an easily cleanable floor! (and a cleaner.....)

Stick with it - it really is much, much easier in the long run when you can just take them out to a cafe and give them anything, its just a grotty few months at the beginning.

[snowboarder]

ha - he already wants the spoon himself! (kind of why BLW appealed) - We have a compromise - he has one and I have one, and yoghurt is catapulted around the kitchen. Happily the cat likes yoghurt (oh dear does that sound disgusting?!?)...hope he feels the same about puree!

[The Nappy Lady]

I've got a Braun hand blender that is dead easy to use you just plug it in and press the button, and easy to rinse off afterwards, so making the purees does seem very easy now.

I didn't really get going with giving her mush until about 10 months, when I just got edgy with the general lack of solids she was consuming, other than a yoghurt, and since spooning in the mush she is sleeping better so I'm sure the volume has helped. The one spoon each trick works well for us too, and whilst I spoon most of it in, she does manage the odd bit herself. I also find if I let her have something like a wipe clean book to hold and look at it will often distract her whilst I spoon the stuff in, and the meal is done in minutes. I don't remember it being so easy to spoon feed Olivia, but Charlotte is good as gold about it, unless she really doesn't like whatever it is I'm trying out on her.

To be honest I'm finding this a lot less messy than the BFW was, though I still let her 'get in there' with stuff if she wants to, usually when the majority of it has gone though. I gave her some birthday cake today (she was 1 yesterday) whoo hoo, and she picked all the icing off and eat it, then shredded the cake and chucked it on the floor - the dog hoovered that up thank goodness!

Just try him with both and see what works best, as you know already there are no rules - he'll let you know what he prefers. I don't find the spooning in a big hassle I have to say. I do try to eat with her when I can (breakfast is always both girls plus me), other meals vary, but I think it helps them to 'get' what it's all about if you can eat together. I find I can give her a spoonful or two, then myself, and it works OK, and once shes done I often end up giving her bits off my plate too and she's quite happy 'til we're all finished.

Don't get the Plum baby green been and beef pots by the way - it is disgusting - Charlotte rejected it hands down, and after I tasted it I can't say I blame her!

Molly

[echo]

Hi Snow boarder,

I'm also doing the blw, although I've mixed in some spoon feeding. Sometimes i just want to feed her soup or risotto etc. Although i do encourage to feed herself (hopefully I don't sound too guilty for not being a purist??)

I feel BLW is an approach to food and feeding. I think it's a positive one, as it attempts to stop parents force feeding their child, regardless of whether the child wanted to eat. If you adopt BLW, when your child doesn't eat its not a battle between angry parents and upset children. It is about trusting you baby that they will tell you when they are hungry and what they liked to eat.

Personally, I don't think it is unusual at 6 months not to want to eat very much. My daughter had no interest until around 7.5 months. But, she was and still is at 15 months, waking up for night time breast feeds.. She loves milk!! But, I have found that her sleeping has changed enormously, with her settling to sleep for longer and longer periods since she started crawling and especially since she was walking.

I remember well the pressure my mother and others put on me to feed my daughter rice powder and more, from about 4 months. It is pretty standard UK parenting, esp in my mother's era. Also the slightly competitive edge of smugness of having a child that 'sleeps through'. I suspect (rightly or wrongly) a lot of people are just refusing to night time parent and maybe letting their baby's cry??

Any way- it's meant to produce happy, healthy eaters- so hopefully our children can miss out on a whole of range of eating type issues later on But don't worry if you use the odd spoon, I did and still do.

[The Nappy Lady]

Echo,

I agree that children sleep and eat a lot better once they get mobile generally speaking. I would say most parents in the UK now try to hold out until 6 months on the weaning front, but obviously advice was different back in our parents day - at one point I believe they used to tell women to start solids at 6 weeks old can you believe?

Sad to hear you feel parents are competitive about their children sleeping through. I am there may be some parents that are, but I remember when my first daughter slept 12 hours a night from 10 weeks old that actually I felt pretty guilty about it because my friends were mostly having a dreadful time and I wasn't, but it was all down to good luck and nothing more. I think if a parent has a child that is sleeping through they should be able to feel happy about it and tell others and I guess sometimes they want to try to share their experience of what they think may have made it happen. My 2nd daughter is only just sleeping through now at a year old, so clearly it was nothing I did first time around, I was just very lucky. I don't think there are many mothers out there than can cope with ignoring a crying baby at night, it is just not in our programming.

On the eating front again I think there is a certain amount of luck involved, and some children develop eating issues whatever you do. My first daughter was a great eater for the first two years, so much so that people often commented on it with amazement. She then became really difficult and fussy for about 18 months and for a while it really worried me. Now at 5 she will eat pretty much anything with gusto thank goodness. During that time nothing has changed in my approach, I've just kept on cooking and putting food in front of her, then taking it away if she didn't eat up within a certain amount of time, so no idea what caused the problems. All very strange, but very common so I am led to believe.

Molly

[snowboarder]

The sleeping issue is complicated - I am so happy for people whose babies sleep as I am finding it AWFUL that mine does not - but sometimes I do get the feeling that some friends/my mother(!) think that my baby doesn't sleep because I am too soft/haven't 'trained' him/feed him/cuddle him/am somehow failing as good parent. Which is all easy to say when you get 6 hrs continuous sleep a night, but not so easy to take when 2 straight hrs is a good night!

[Hornpipe]

I'm also having a little wobble on BLW after my 6 month old choked on a piece of apple today. It was very scary - is this normal/am I being a wimp?! Purees just provoke a lot of retching and upset, so BLW is the only thing that seems to get any interest, but I'm not sure I have strong enough nerves!

[snowboarder]

I don't think we have had actual choking - that sounds scary hornpipe! But - slightly TMI - have had gagging and whole 'meal' coming right back up over highchair tray!! Apple is quite hard - we have had more success with softer pear/necatarine. And I really try to make sure baby is sat up as straight as possible, not leaning back.

[sb]

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[sb]

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[Fuschia]

Choking is actually them just pushing the food out if it's too big...

I started with purees for our babies then quickly moved to a BLW approach.. too lazy to spoonfeed two for long.. sometimes giving them a few spoons of something mashed while also letting them self feed big chunks of the stuff. I haven't fed them at all since they hit a year.They're great eaters. We have baby bjorn bowls and spoons, they're great... http://www.amazon.co.uk/BabyBjorn-Plate-Spoon-Set-Bright/dp/B000NGASSA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=baby&qid=1255329608&sr=8-1

[helena handbasket]

I wouldn't worry too much about sticking to rules, besides your baby is "leading" you towards purees. If that is what makes him happy, it's really not a bad thing. I actually really enjoyed that time!

Anyway yeah the comments from people are almost as bad as the sleep deprivation. My mother, who makes coffee nervous, was constantly telling me that "so and so's daughter is a nurse and she says that something's not right". Then I would meet up with moms and babies and NONE of them were having sleep issues. And I would be green with exhaustion, jealous that they were getting sleep but also that they were enjoying babyhood so much more because of it.

That said, solids didn't work on my little night owl. As it turns out, my son is very strong willed and from a very early age realized that if he called I would come and snuggle and it became a habit, one that would surely kill me if it kept up. By nine months I was ready to be committed and had to really get real about getting him to sleep at night. It was a LOT of work and took a couple of months (with very few tears I should add) but I turned him into an awesome sleeper.

Regarding statements that trying to get some sleep is "refusing night parenting" .......is that supposed to be a joke? I have never heard anything so counter-productive and harsh in three years of mothering. When you are trembling, with a knotted and nauseous stomach and headache 24 hours a day because you are getting so little sleep that you actually feel like you might drop dead of a heart attack any second now, you can make comments about what motivates someone to get the situation on track. What an insensitive comment. Snowboarder is looking for help. I'm glad that things are going a bit better for you but honestly??????

[echo]

Sorry if I have caused offence by suggesting that maybe some babies are not night- time parented and this is why they sleep through. I was not trying to over simplify the BIG issue of sleeping and feeding. But trying to offer a different perspective on 'sleeping through' which can feel very elusive. Going back to an argument against blw, some feel that feeding lots to babies enables them to sleep through. Which, according to BLW, may not be in the babies best interests.

The issue of controlled crying is very emotive (and a different topic), especially as I think it means different things things to different people. Which is probably true for all theories of parenting, as we all put our all slant on things. I'm all for discussing and reflecting on our experiences and opinions on forums and more..

Anyway I hope everyone has a happy day with their little ones- the sun is out and it's a wonderful autumn day

best wishes

echo...

[helena handbasket]

Controlled crying never even came up. I didn't do it and I'm not suggesting snowboarder do it either. I can't understand how parenting has become so categorized...... controlled crying, baby led weaning, attachment parenting etc etc etc.

Common sense tells me "baby led" means just that, and her baby is leading her towards purees. Can't see a philosophical debate coming out of that, it is what it is.