Arise Sir Gordon - The Love of Money.

[Mick Mac]

On watching another episode of the BBC's "The Love of Money" tonight it seems clear that Gordon Brown and Alastair Darling were ahead of the game in recapitalising the UK banks in September 2008. Hank Paulson and the US later reacted and performed similar bank saving measures, but the UK lead the way and saved the world.

Will Gordon be rewarded for saving the world?

[Huguenot]

I don't think so, but I do think he did an excellent job.

Sadly, being an excellent hand on the exchequer doesn't make you a good prime minister, I think he's been pretty shite. He fails to engage and motivate, which is a pretty important part of leadership.

I sympathise with his sleepless nights, but that still doesn't make him any good.

What do they say about being promoted to the level of your own incompetence?

[Mick Mac]

Think thats called the gordon principle now.

Am i right in saying churchlll won the war and still lost the election - so i guess in times of recession / hardship there is little chance of winning an election. People when hard up vote for change.

[woofmarkthedog]

I love Gordon & his weirdness more each day. History will prove him well in the end.

Good programme as well.

W**F

[LegalEagle-ish]

I think the way the media have ganged up on him is horrible; he seems a much more genuine person than his predecessor or his main opponent.

Blair and Cameron are slimy and can?t be trusted.

I just wish Brown would hitch up his pants and get some fighting in. He?s a bit too sensitive to media demonization, and we may end up with the Bullingdon Club running the bloody country if he doesn?t fix up soon.

Imagine Boris on a National scale - time to leave the bloody country methinks.

[Jah Lush]

Yeah! Come on Gordon. Fix up. Look sharp! We most certainly don't want that posh Bullingdon Club bunch of scummers taking us down ever further into the shit. If you think things are bad now. I hate to think what will happen if Cunty Cameron and the Bulldog breed get in.

[Keef]

What LegalEagle said.

Although I'd be more concerned about George Osborne being Chancellor than Cameron being PM. GO really is a nasty little man.

[ratty]

Totally agree with Jah - but it feels to me like it is a done deal and I am already planning for redundancy.

[HAL9000]

Will Gordon be rewarded for saving the world?

1. It's still too early to know whether he has saved the world or merely sown the seeds of an even greater crisis to come?

2. The cause of the crisis was bubbling away throughout his watch yet he didn't see it coming. Surely he has to take a fair share of the blame for bringing the UK to the verge of bankruptcy and saddling us with the ensuing debt burden before basking in the limelight as a saviour?

[ratty]

HAL9000 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> 2. The cause of the crisis was bubbling away

> throughout his watch yet he didn't see it coming.

> Surely he has to take a fair share of the blame

> for bringing the UK to the verge of bankruptcy and

> saddling us with the ensuing debt burden before

> basking in the limelight as a saviour?

I think it is a world recession is it not, not just a UK one? How can GB take the blame for that?

[Mick Mac]

1. He saved the banks. This needed quick and decisive action. The banks needed to be stabilised or things would have been significantly worse than they are now.

2. The banks problems were their own investment in sub prime and for RBS also buying others sub prime in buying abn anro.

Sub prime is a us created problem which the world has and will be paying for for decades. Sure the banks were too aggressive in their lending but it was ironically their investment in sub prime that broke them. Sub prime cannot be laid at gordons door but he dealt with it admirably.

[Magpie]

I'm sorry but this is rubbbish.

The house market boom in the US and elsewhere was caused by interest rates being kept too low for too long by the Fed, the BoE and others. This made it more affordable to borrow money - banks make money by lending money so thats what they did. Interest rates were kept too low because of the impact of the "China" price - ie low price goods from china plus the fact that the chinese government purchased US secutities to stop the dollar falling, hence inflation stayed low. This came to an end with the rise in oil and commodity prices, which led to higher inflation, which led to banks increasing interest rates, which led to sub prime borrowers defaulting. Now the bank were not prudent as to who they lent to, but the UK and US consumer have been feckless and should take some of the blame.

Gordon is to blame for the relativly poor position of the UK. Under his watch personal debt expanded massively, and he spent high tax receipts in the good times so that the cupboard is now bare. As a result the UK gov and UK households are virtually broke. His actions last September may have helped to prevent total collapse of the financial system, but the seeds of the financial collapse were planted on his watch, and in some cases are directly attributable to him.

[Mick Mac]

the thread is about gordons rescue plan for the banks.

But it any case sub prime was the principle cause of the financial crisis.

Show me a bank that would have needed saving if it had not been for sub prime.

[HAL9000]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 1. He saved the banks.

He championed a stopgap measure that transformed debt into liquidity (i.e. money). Wait until that debt comes home to roost before getting too excited. Everyone feels good during the early stages of a Ponzi scheme.

> Sub prime cannot be laid at gordons

> door but he dealt with it admirably.

UK banks and mortgage lenders were accumulating toxic assets under his nose for several years. Several well-known economists had warned of an impending credit implosion years ago. Gordon must have known what was going on. He, literally, turned a blind eye in the hope that the resulting pseudo-wealth would carry him through the next election before the sh1t hit the fan.

He took a massive gamble with our future and lost. Shame on you if he fools you twice.

[Keef]

I agree that it has been a global financial issue, but that is too easy an excuse for GB, he needs to take a bit of the blame IMO. Yes he's done well at getting things back on track, but who was in charge of the purse strings for all those years?

[Mick Mac]

the toxic assets were AAA rated.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing hal.

Shame? Im not a gordon brown fan. I cant stand the man. But he did save the worlds banks.

The debt we will be repaying in the uk for years hal is the debt on US homes accumuled by a us system that allows us mortgagees to hand in their keys and walk away from their debts and these debts were AAA rated by us rating agenries.

[LuLu Too]

Gordon Brown was undoubtedly a better Chancellor than PM.

But there are some who think he may still pull off the general election in 2010 a la John Major in 1992.

One can hope.

As for that Irish Baronet - Gideon Osborne - well, I like to paste him up in his familys wallpaper and post via Royal Mail to Tipperary.

Bullingdon Club as Cabinet anyone??

[Windom]

Also add to the fact he has happy to continue the steady deregulation of the City commenced under the Tories - resulting in his Guildhall speech referring to the golden age

[Windom]

Further this current obsession with debt is largely bollocks,

a) other nations manage quite well with higher levels as a percentage of GDP,

b) quite some of it was run up purchasing banks at rock bottom prices which will in time be sold off,

c) a lot of the allocated spending is on the puchase, or underwriting, of distressed assets which at the end of the day will have some residual value.

This 'cut the debt' hysteria is the Tories wet dream

[woofmarkthedog]

Windom Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Further this current obsession with debt is

> largely bollocks,

> a) other nations manage quite well with higher

> levels as a percentage of GDP,

> b) quite some of it was run up purchasing banks at

> rock bottom prices which will in time be sold off,

>

> c) a lot of the allocated spending is on the

> puchase, or underwriting, of distressed assets

> which at the end of the day will have some

> residual value.

>

> This 'cut the debt' hysteria is the Tories wet

> dream

__________________________________________________

Look at what is riding high on the stockmarket, Financials , banks like Lloyds are well up & debts are being converted.