University- Is it all it's cracked up to be?

[Narnia]

I read recently that some Uni's were giving additional marks to students who bothered to turn up for lectures. If this is the case, is it that easy to get a degree and if so why does/did it improve job opportunities for those who have them?

[????]

Isn't this debate part of the A level one? ....Now who started that thread?

[Narnia]

If that's the case my apologies!

[silverfox]

What is your question here Declan?

My view is simple - university is about studying something you enjoy, meeting people from different walks of life with different views who you wouldn't normally meet within your immediate circle and generally growing up and maturing, learning about the value of money, without your parents or formative peers making or framing your decisions.

I find it sad that it is commonly accepted today that you should study something so that you can get a job at the end of it. Take the opportunity to study what you want and then go on to train to do whatever you decide.

[Pugwash]

I went to university very late in life (40) did my degree and post grad diploma and got a job within a couple of months.

I knew the profession I wanted to be in, took the relevant qualifications, got the job and 15 years later still employed.

I think if you have a clear idea of your goal and that it is realistic i.e. teaching, occupational therapist, you are more likely to work hard and turn up for lectures etc. Eldest child went to uni to study psychology - no idea of a career post degree, various employments, now gone back to study of a 2nd degree in occupational therapy. Youngest child went for a B.Ed now working as a tutor in college.

I work with many young people who are on their gap year - very few of them have an idea of what they will do with their degree. One was doing Media Studies - she had no idea of a career,just thought a degree would give her an advantage with employers. Whilst this may be true a few years ago- rarely happens now.

[Pugwash]

Would just like to add to my previous post that living away from home and being exposed to a wide variety of people from all cultures and regions, having to manage on very little money etc, is an education in itself. The 2 that went to uni are far more confident in their outlook, can converse easily, can adjust more readily to living on a reduced income and have a wider range of interest. Our other daughter left school at 16, dropped out of FE college as found it boring,although being more street wise than the other 2, finds it more difficult to mix with others outside her own circle of friends. She is now a mother of 3 (8 - 15 years)but still lacks confidence in her abilities.

[Santerme]

I still think it depends on the University you attend, I am not a great fan of dumbing down in order to increase the numbers of graduates.

My first two years were very much a social event, my final year became very intense as a result.

I was sponsored through by the Govt and had my career path mapped out.

So to me it was the vehicle I needed.

My eldest daughter's first term at University College, London starts tomorrow....

I guess I will know shortly how that works out.

[Ann]

I would have thought it depended on the course chosen. Pugwash's comments were pertinent. It worries me that many youngsters think a degree in , for example Media Studies , will have a career in television or radio, where perhaps degrees in English, History or other traditional subjects would open more doors.

My daughter hopes to study modern languages and I would encourage her even if her eventual career might not necessarily need a second language.

Good luck to your daughter Santerne.

[Santerme]

Thanks Ann

Languages are a good inroad to many careers.

My youngest brother did French and German, he leaves the service next year and is joining the UN in New York.

[????]

Personally I think Higher Education should be a privelige not a right. It's been devalued.

[Keef]

I went to uni to get drunk, I did very well.

So, I probably shouldn't have gone to uni, at least not at 18, when I was just using it as a half way house between living at home, and being a proper adult.

Uni should be for people who really want to study. The problem is, unis need bums on seats, so are throwing places at people who really don't belong there.

[dulwichmum]

Perfect Keef,

This, I suppose, could be true. I don't know about every course at every uni. Certainly some courses (law, engineering, medicine, architecture) are as over-subscribed as ever this year. I think there are less students taking a gap year and I hear that there is more pressure/competition than ever. No dumbing down required.

[Keef]

I can believe that DM, and those types of course will always be sought after.

[womanofdulwich]

I think a lot of this depends where you come from.30 years ago as child of working class parents I went to Polytechnic to train for a job, as did partner - an engineer.Our parents would not have supported us to do a degree in History or English - as we needed to "get a job at the end". We were not encouraged to be educated for the sake of it, but to get a job. Now from the luxury of having made it to being fully middle class I would say yes do a History degree if you want, whilst partner would say absolutely no to a physics or chemistry degree- as "there will be no job at the end". Some degrees like English might teach you skills for life- but partner thinks a Physics/ Chemistry degree is hopeless.

[Narnia]

I like this concept very much silverfox along with those saying that University life was a part of helping one to grow up. My son is keen to go next year and has already got a place for the course he wanted to do. He needs to grow up as much as anything else and being away from home will be an education in itself. If he ends up with a degree, great. If he ends up just being more mature, that's good too.

What I found strange is that Uni's would lower their standards by offering extra marks for kids who showed up for lectures. That I can't get. As ???? said it should be considered a privelige to have the chance to go and maybe with that attitude more would be achieved.

[SeanMacGabhann]

My parents were deperate for me to go to Uni. A LOT of pressure. Schools in Ireland used to do day-trips to the various Unis and colleges so we could get some idea of what we fancied

I wasn't the lease bit interested. Finally, on the last possible visit to NIHE Limerick I was captivated by the sociology, languages and humanities courses. I couldn't wait to tell the folks...

Turns out they wanted me to do a PROPER degree - engineering or summat. What kind of job would I get with "humanities" they wanted to know

So I never went. Left school (and home) at 16. Kind of wish I had gone to Uni for the atmos but mostly glad I made my own way.

The question from the OP can be interpreted in many ways - from my time hanging around friends halls and speaking to those who went - yeah it definitely is "all it's cracked up to be"

Is it necessary for most? Probably not

[????]

I am the only one in all of my family -siblings, parents, grandparents, cousins and aunties and uncles, the whole bleedin' lot, who has ever been so am still considered the 'Swotty Git' ( I 'think' they were all proud of me)...so of course I was immensley proud of myself, worked extremely hard, and didn't try and waste the taxpayers money (those were the days) on drink and drugs, oh no

[Moos]

Declan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What I found strange is that Uni's would lower

> their standards by offering extra marks for kids

> who showed up for lectures. That I can't get. As

> ???? said it should be considered a privelige to

> have the chance to go and maybe with that attitude

> more would be achieved.

If I look back on my (extraordinarily privileged) 18-year-old self, and my friends of that era, I think I can confidently

say that my experience of very young adults at university is that they do not at all appreciate how privileged they are. Many people look back on their university days and wish they had had more focus.... while not necessarily regretting having a lot of fun.

[louisiana]

Higher education has some parallels with tourism: if it becomes a mass thing, everyone goes, then that alters the goalposts for everyone.

When everyone goes to the beach etc., it's just not the same (crowded, noisy, crowded skies, flight delays...), and when everyone goes to university, the experience is devalued (no/fewer/lower grants, class overcrowding, teaching by postgrad students, and little or no income differential when you come out as everyone else has a degree too).

[Jeremy]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

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> but partner thinks a Physics/Chemistry degree is hopeless.

That is simply untrue!

For professions requiring a high level of numeracy (accounting, finance, computing, etc) a good science degree will often be a pre-requisite for graduate programs. And if you're smart enough to get a Physics PhD, you could be heading for a very lucrative career in analytics in the city.

[Santerme]

louisiana Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Higher education has some parallels with tourism:

> if it becomes a mass thing, everyone goes, then

> that alters the goalposts for everyone.

>

> When everyone goes to the beach etc., it's just

> not the same (crowded, noisy, crowded skies,

> flight delays...), and when everyone goes to

> university, the experience is devalued

> (no/fewer/lower grants, class overcrowding,

> teaching by postgrad students, and little or no

> income differential when you come out as everyone

> else has a degree too).

I agree, we are definitely dumbing down.

My daughter chose her course to give best experience as well as academic qualification, it is a four year course with the third year studying at Milan University, she has good Italian and hopefully she will gain total fluency as the bonus!

[dulwichmum]

Jeremy said:

"For professions requiring a high level of numeracy (accounting, finance, computing, etc) a good science degree will often be a pre-requisite for graduate programs. And if you're smart enough to get a Physics PhD, you could be heading for a very lucrative career in analytics in the city."

Not quite as often as you think Jeremy dear. A large number of people with physics PhDs are lucky if they secure temporary contracts as university researchers.

[Mick Mac]

Definatley all its cracked up to be - or it was in 1986-1989. I loved it, worked hard for my A levels to get in there (with some parental pressure) but did bugger all for 2 and half years while I was there. Worked for the last few months to save my future.

However I had a great time, made many friends and found my financial and social independence - I think its a great stepping stone before work - its soon enough to start working.

Its a privelege not a right, but also think that those smart enough to get in should get in, I don't see why those who have not excelled in 14 years of education should be forced or encouraged to have 3/4 years more.

As for attendance, then I guess there should be a low minimum attendance requirement but this should not be stringent or be rewarded with marks. This is counter productive.

[Jeremy]

OK I accept a physics PhD alone isn't always enough to secure a good job. There are other pre-requisites, such as the ability to talk to people whilst looking them in the eye, and attaining a basic level of personal hygiene.

[dulwichmum]

OHMYGOD Jeremy! You are so right...