Liberal or Disciplinarian?

[KateMontero]

Hello

I have had so many varied and interesting, and still ongoing replies to my thread re. step-children, that it made me think about opening up the discussion. It seems there is a lot of different advice re. disciplining children and treating 'children as children', versus the (what I would call more liberal?) approach of listening and communicating and explaining things to your child.

Now, I know very little. My parents were hugely disciplinarian and never talked things through with me. I did as I was told or got punshed. I often hated it at the time, but on reflection I'm quite grateful that I had those boundaries. On the other hand I think a good dose of communication is also helpful for both parties. My husband however is totally liberal. Punishment in any form is rare. I've only heard him raise his voice to his children twice in four years! And, as a result I think they take advantage of him. But that's just my view.

In addition, my only 2 friends with children over 3 are of the liberal mindset and will try and sit calmly explaining things to their tantruming screaming children. To be honest, I don't see that it works very well and sometimes I think it produces fairly spoilt children. Although, I like both children in question and they are very confident to talk to adults.

So my question is, how were you raised and how do you raise or plan to raise your children? I'd be very interested to hear what people think about this. Although I think I know already where SteveT is coming from! (kindly joke in case that didn't come across).

Kate x

[sillywoman]

Whip the little blighters . . . .Oooh sorry, came over all SteveT for a moment.

[pebbles]

Very interesting question and definitely something i'll want to think more on however initial thoughts are i think it will depend on the children.

At the moment I am definitely disciplinarian (my son is only 2!!!!!) as i don't believe he would understand the discussion (within reason). I explain to him why i'm saying no or perhaps raising my voice but obviously don't sit him down and discuss.

I think it will be very difficult to do it dependent on the child but I do feel that some children react better to being treated like adults and being sat down and discussed whereas others need to be told of and punished. I was definitely someone who needed to be told off and punished whereas my older brother just reacted badly to that and behaved even worse so in hindsight i think my parents should have discussed things with him.

The problem is though is it possible to treat children in the same house differently?

And here i was thinking my sons tantrum in the park earlier was difficult to treat - i think these days are easy in comparison!!! - they can't answer back :)

[snowboarder]

It DOES so depend on the children doesn't it? My parents were pretty relaxed and in response I never rebelled - never saw any need to! But my younger sister took advantage...

I can see me being like my mother - far too liberal - and I will let the little snowboarder(s) get away with murder (hang on he's only 5 months and already is!). Too soft...but I HATE rows.

[Belle]

Mine were pretty disclipinarian. I was v good and never broke any rules - my big brother was the opposite. I think I'll probably veer between the two inconsistently! I'm pretty liberal about some things but not sure my husband will always agree (eg I like the idea of explaining about drugs etc but encouraging open-ness, rather than just saying 'don't do it' - frankly I'd rather they just told me). In some ways I'm dreading the toddler years more than the teenage years, as how do you reason with a 3 year old? Can you? Hmm. The whole smacking debate...

[sillywoman]

Agree with the comment about it depending on age. When my two biggest were tinies I was the disciplinarian, and there were times when I resented always being the 'bad guy' and it caused a bit of friction. Interestingly, now they're adolescents our roles have shifted. Sensibleman is much more rigid than I am, I am too lax, mainly due to laziness it has to be said, so now he's the baddie and has had to ask me to up my game and back him up on occasion. Also having a number of children has made me much more tolerant and libertarian than I was. I don't sweat the small stuff so much, and just hope the littlies learn from the good (:-S) example of the biggies. Maybe there's also an element of 'I put in all the work early on so now I'm going to sit back and enjoy them', 'cos they are good kids, even if I do say so myself! Plus ca change I guess . . .

[BeccaL]

Definitely disciplinarian - it gets me mad when friends don't tell their children off when they're being naughty. We find removal of treats pretty successful and our daughter is fairly well behaved in our opinion! This could all backfire in future - who knows... I think the important thing is that you are their parent primarily not their friend - it's your job to teach them what's right and what's wrong.

[SteveT]

Sillywoman wrote:- Whip the little blighters . . . .Oooh sorry, came over all SteveT for a moment.

Made me laugh out loud SW.

My ex-wife found it more diifficult to control the youngest who is more like me in behaviour and thinking processes, the eldest (more like her mother) was rather contrary and beyond my wit and wisdom, after the traditional threat and final delivery of the inevitable smack I was out of ideas. Her mother would take over and think of something she could stop her from receiving such as favoured film tickets etc.

The youngest was controlled just by a growl or a withering look, and she caught on immediately, and would stop misbehaving long before the final blow was administered. If her mother tried to stop her and used the same tactics on second daughter, she would say 'well I dont care if I see the film or not'. Her mother would be out of ideas by then too.

Do what ever works best to keep you sane and the child in check, yet costs the least amount of emotional and physical energy to the adult.

Children and adults respond well to clearly defined borders.

BeccaL wrote:- it gets me mad when friends don't tell their children off when they're being naughty.

I quite agree, and they would not be invited back either.

[SteveT]

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[SteveT]

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[nunheadmum]

Good thread! My mum was a total disciplinarian - no questions, do as she said. But she did talk about things too, in appropriate circumstances. I did grow up with total deference to authority which I don't think was necessarily healthy - but that may have been my nature as much as nurture.

As for my own kids, I think I'm trying to be more liberal but I want them to realise that there are times when - e.g. if a particular voice comes into play - things aren't up for discussion and I want them to do as I say. My 3yr old has been particularly trying of late and cheeky and when I start trying to explain something, she's putting on this glazed over look, more like 3 going on 14! And there are times when I can tell she's heading towards meltdown and I tend to push the discipline to bring on the tantrum and get it over with.

Never sure if I'm doing it right or sending mixed messages that leave them totally confused or quite what....guess I'll find out in 20 years or so!

[sillywoman]

Mmmm, yes a very interesting thread. Has really set me thinking. I was much more disciplinarian that I am now, but what SteveT said about controlling with a growl or withering look is exactly what I can do. I wonder if this is because I was stricter when they were younger, so I still have the ultimate control when I need it? Me and Mr SW are definitely of the 'we're your parents not your friends' school of thought and I think that stands us in good stead now when we have to occasionally make unpopular decisions for the greater good of a child or the family as a whole.

Over the years at playgroups and in the school playground I have observed that the loveliest, most gentle Mums (can't comment on Dads) tend to have the brattiest, most obnoxious, worst mannered children. This seems to be down to their inability to do the 'stern voice & stern eye' thing with anything approaching conviction. However I tell myself that their children will probably grow to be the most delightful adults due to the good example set by their mild mannered parents, whereas mine will grow to be screaming harridans who need years of therapy. Actually I've resigned myself to my kids need for years of therapy 'cause of my crap parenting. I take heart from the fact that I'm not alone, as the immortal words of Philip Larkin show . . . . .

[Fuschia]

sillywoman Wrote:

> Over the years at playgroups and in the school

> playground I have observed that the loveliest,

> most gentle Mums (can't comment on Dads) tend to

> have the brattiest, most obnoxious, worst mannered

> children. This seems to be down to their inability

> to do the 'stern voice & stern eye' thing with

> anything approaching conviction. However I tell

> myself that their children will probably grow to

> be the most delightful adults due to the good

> example set by their mild mannered parents,

> whereas mine will grow to be screaming harridans

> who need years of therapy.

Oops, that's probably me, though when i DO get cross I get VERY cross and only last week made a dramatic exit from a Kung Fu class because child no 1 was being awful, even though I had to recruit lots of help to carry 3 wailing children to the car.. a swift exit isn't easy atm!!

[SteveT]

Sillywoman wrote:- Actually I've resigned myself to my kids need for years of therapy 'cause of my crap parenting.

The thing is we only get one go at being parents, and as soon as the baby is born you are expected to be a ruddy expert, and you are expected to know why it's still crying, even though you have fed it, burped it, changed it's nappy, walked around letting it be sick down your back..........

There is only one right way and that is the way we choose to do it, which ever suits us best. Sometimes, as it is a long term and complex ride, most of us now and again do it wrong, but we are doing it without the help, knowledge, and input of the grandparents, because we no longer have three generations under the same roof.

If mine need therapy at least they have had an education so they can hopefully earn enough of their own money to pay for it.

[lorraineliyanage]

Any thoughts on how to deal with conflicting parental styles? I know this will become an issue in the near future and I don't want to end up being the 'mean parent' whilst my other half is the 'fun parent'.

[Belle]

Oh I know what you mean Lorraine - only last night I was saying I thought we should ration TV when he gets older and could tell OH was against the idea. I know the ideal thing is to agree rules in private ie not disagree in front of the kids but in practice, can see how that's not going to work every time.

[BeccaL]

I think you definitely have to have the discussions in private, and back up the other parent even if you disagree with what they have done - my husband is stricter than me, despite my best efforts to maintain consistency, but if I'm disciplining our daughter he lets me get on with it rather than appear to her as if he doesn't agree with me. We often discuss what is/isn't acceptable, but I think the two of you being as consistent as possible to the children is vital, even if you disagree between yourselves - agree what you're both happy with and try to stick to it.

My husband felt that when our daughter was younger he was being "bad daddy" and was worried that she would hate him for it in future (she still might, who knows!!), but she responds very well to him as she knows he won't take any nonsense. I often end up using "Would you do that for Daddy? No, then don't do it for me" which at least (I think) helps her understand that we both think that it is important.

She's currently a bit shocked that we discuss what she's been doing - when I ask her about something which happened the previous day that her dad has told me about she looks aghast and says "How do you know?" - well, we do talk to each other after you go to bed sweetheart!!