Latest news on the Save the South London Line Campaign

[Eileen]

It?s great to see at last a real discussion on EDF sparked off by our public meeting on Wednesday. I haven?t responded till now as I?m recovering from the exhaustion of putting all the key elements in place for the public meeting to make sure it got the right messages across. It seems like it did. My huge thanks to Laurie who realised my dream of years to produce the map showing the South London Line (SLL) part of our direct rail connections to central London from Peckham and Camberwell. See attached pdf for this, and also on the SRUG webpages at http://www.bellenden.net/srug/news/30-september-meeting-maps-fact-flyers . Use the map to show your friends. I have lived in Peckham for 36 years so I have too much negative experience of how people are affected by the Tube map, ignoring places that don't appear on the Tube map. We are now going to change that.

Now I, like many people, am in favour of the orbital link that TfL have worked hard to achieve through the East London Line Extension (ELLX). I applaud them for that achievement. It makes sense in long term development of London?s transport Infrastructure. But I have never understood how people were so taken in by TfL propaganda that it would at last put us on the Tube (which isn?t true) when the ELLX came through. In practice, as a long term rail user it felt like we were anyway but it just wasn?t on the physical map. It is why I tried for years to get someone in TfL interested in getting us on to the physical map. Now I understand why that was impossible. They seem to want to make every one think that you can go only east and west from Peckham and Camberwell on the overground rail. I was shocked in the last year when I discovered the maps TfL were producing for the Tube in 2012 showing us on the map through the overground ELLX, but absolutely no links with central London as if our overground rail services to central London didn?t exist. You can see the map at http://www.bellenden.net/sites/default/files/tube%20map%202012%20orange%20line.doc This is not an accidental aberration, as these services are completely ignored also in the TfL/Mayor draft Transport Strategy for London.

Our direct central London services include also, as well as the SLL, the now fantastic link with St Pancras and beyond via Blackfriars and Elephant & Castle. This cross-London link (our only one) is a restoration of what we used to have before privatisation (and there is no guarantee we will keep it after the next refranchise in 2011/12 ? we have to campaign for that as well). We need to get all these on our local maps as well and use them to promote Peckham and Camberwell in spite of TfL?s determination to downplay our direct rail connections with central London. It makes life easy for Network Rail and DfT to go along with this and also to pile all the blame on TfL. But they are all in it together.

The complete dismissal by the rail industry of the high value for all London travellers of these crucial links is what lies behind the decision to cut the South London Line. It shows that we have to get the politicians to instruct the rail industry to change that. We have made a huge step forward in getting the support of the 4 main political parties - Greens, Lib Dems, Conservative, Labour - at almost all levels ? ward, boroughs, London Assembly, MPs. So imagining that we can get the politicians to instruct the rail industry to change its approach is not far fetched. The last remaining elements to get to see common sense are the Labour Rail Minister/SofS for Transport and the Conservative Mayor Boris Johnson.

This is such a huge shift the rail industry has to make it is not going to happen overnight. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth (metaphorically of course) but if we keep our nerve and keep developing the strength of our campaign we can make this change. An important step is Boris Johnson?s visit to Brixton on Monday 9th November 7pm for his People?s Question Time. We need the place packed with rail users who know about these issues so that he doesn?t leave Brixton without understanding the issue. It is very likely that neither he nor his political transport advisers yet understand it as they are not south Londoners and they are briefed only by TfL. So we have to get a direct connection with him. We have a good chance on the 9th November. So everyone who wants us to win this needs to get tickets for that event. Here is what you have to do NOW to make sure you get one:

Mayor's Question Time Mon 9th November 09 7pm in Brixton apply for tickets: email - [email protected] include name, address, postcode, daytime phone number, number of tickets needed OR call 020 7983 4762.

To help strengthen the campaign, email [email protected] to get on the mailing list so we can alert you easily to news and actions. Also see the SRUG webpages for news and background: http://www.bellenden.net/srug All the info about the cuts that we gave out on Wed (see attachment fact flyer by stations, for a copy of this) has been available for months on the website, in emails, and distributed in flyers by a handful of rail users on the trains and the stations. This contributed to over 200 people coming to the public meeting. It didn?t happen overnight. But we need to get the news to thousands more, so the more people who download the flyers and distribute them to fellow rail travellers the more we can spread the word. They are in A6 pocket size by station, so easy to print and carry. And for a summary list of all the Actions that users can take - see SSLL Actions attachment.

Sorry for the long post. If there are any remaining doubts or queries about the huge common sense of this campaign, I will gladly attempt to respond if you post them again, or for the first time, in this discussion.

[Steady Eddy]

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[dogkennel]

Sorry to labour the point about the map, but the tube map people are on about doesn?t show all other rail links to other places in Zone 2 south London. That map also shows that there are apparently no direct rail services from Clapham Junction to central London, ?as if overground rail services didn?t exist?! There's other maps available.

I am supportive of what you?re doing of course, but in the short term getting the best out of the proposed railway changes and in the long term improving the area's physical connectivity are more crucial than worrying about drawing lines everywhere on one map, and which might only detract from the message.

[evans1971]

I am not sure how easy it would be to rebuild platforms 17+ at London Bridge - but surely the key issue that these would need to be rebuilt and that would cause disruption and the need to change the timetable

From what I have read part of the reason for stopping the South London Line to London Bridge is that London Bridge is planned to be rebuilt in 2012 for Thameslink (I think that is right??) If i read the network rail stuff correctly wasnt it proposed to run the South London Line service toward Nunhead instead?? So that link would have been lost whatever whilst London Bridge is rebuilt .........It would be impossible to rebuild the station with no disruption to services wouldnt it? Anyway Peckham Rye and East Dulwich retains train to London Bridge (doesnt it) under the plans?

I guess we also need to think about money and where the money would come from.........

[R&A]

Evans1971 - thanks for your points as these were exactly the ones that TFL and Network Rail highlighted at the meeting last week. They said that due to logistical issues (rebuilding London Bridge) and financial constraints (the transfer of funds to the East London Line extension) keeping the SLL would not be possible. Now we can address them here on the forum

.....Evans1971 are u actually TFL in disguise? ;)

I'm going to give my personal point of view, perhaps others would like to add their thoughts too, as i'm speaking as a lay person who just lives in the area. i know there are better informed people on this site.

The SLL is a core part of our transport service and frankly the east london line would NOT be

Everyone was really excited to hear about the new ELL extension especially after hearing that the Tram had been axed.

However, learning that we would have to sacrifice a better service to TWO central london line stations changes things somewhat.

I would much rather have the SLL over the ELL extension as would many (xref the recent survey supporting this fact and just a logical, rational understanding of transport links into a capital city)

It's like a government telling the whole of South London that they will fund a new, state-of-the-art liver disease unit for the local hospital BUT at the expense of the A&E department. Great news until you hear what the caveat is..... which makes no sense at all. Forgive the crude analogy .. but you get the point...

POINT ONE: FUNDING & SPACE

My answer to this is 'FIND the funding FIND the space - work it out - this is a core part of South London's public transport network'

POINT TWO: THERE ARE STILL TRAINS GOING TO LV AND LB

There wont be ANY to LB from Denmark hill and in two year's you've reduced Peckham Rye from a 'Tube-like' train station, where you can just turn up and expect a train into CENTRAL london, to a typical, basic 'train-station' where you have to ring up and find out when the trains are. This is going backwards not forwards and importantly doesn't take into account the lack of space on these trains at rush hour.

But rest assured, if we lose the SLL, fewer people will choose to live in this area and perhaps it wont be so crowded after all... a depressing but realistic thought

[R&A]

Steady Eddy - they sounds like really good ideas. How did you coordinate it all? should we pick an MP, a date and draft a rough letter and get it posted up on here you think?

[Steady Eddy]

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[Eileen]

It is a great idea to encourage more emails to the key people. We have had this as a key part of the campaign from the beginning last April. See here for the list of people and the email addresses. http://www.bellenden.net/rail-cuts#actions and scroll to

* email your views to the decision makers: tell them why you value the service, and ask them to stop the cut:

Lord Adonis (the Rail Minister) at: [email protected] and Boris Johnson at: [email protected]

* email your elected representatives.- and a list of all of them.

This has been very effective in creating a continuing stream of emails rather than meeting a particular deadline. We need them to keep on going to the decision makers. So if you haven?t done it already please do it now. All the emails and letters have been personal which as Steady Eddy says is the most effective. There may be more that can be done to stimulate more emails via this website as R&A says.

We will also be developing the messages when we have another key point to make, and maybe for a particular deadline as the campaign moves on. But at the moment it is the general message - which is that the SLL is important, that we want our direct services to central London maintained and improved and not cut, even when we have the ELLX.

If anyone wants to post a starter draft which can be refined in this discussion we would be glad to put it on the SRUG website and add it to the actions list.

Please also anyone interested in making suggestions for actions, it would be good to browse through the website so you can see what we are doing. It is very comprehensive. May not be all immediately obvious in detail but it is very comprehensive. If there is anything not there or anything not clear please say. The key pages are:

* Home ? summary of key highlights past & future: http://www.southwarkrailusers.net

* Campaign page ? actions to take, campaign news, outcomes, background: http://www.bellenden.net/rail-cuts

* SRUG News ? posts on daily happenings, news reports, actions etc: http://www.bellenden.net/srug/news

The SRUG webpages are currently hosted on the BRG website hence the web page addresses as they are shortened by this EDF system. Don?t let that put you off ? they go straight to the SRUG pages.

Steady Eddy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> R&A Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Steady Eddy - they sounds like really good

> ideas.How did you coordinate it all? should we

> pick an MP, a date and draft a rough letter and

> get it posted up on here you think?

>

> Please be aware that I personally did not

> coordinate this, nor did I set it up, but I can

> definately answer the information you have

> requested.

> Coordinating - this was done via a website. Also

> anyone interested in the campaign provided their

> email details so was on a database. They were

> emailed informing them of the planned letter

> campaign also with the information that would hit

> home of its importance. This email sent to them

> provided a link to the website direct to the

> drafted document. They were asked to contribute by

> filling out the personal part of the drafted

> email/letter. For a lower coordinated version of

> this, perhaps a word document attachment could be

> emailed to contributers rather than via a website.

>

>

> Picking an MP - The MP must be your own MP, which

> for ED it is Tessa Jowell, but the MP will differ

> depending on where we all live. The link that was

> sent to all on the database also allowed them to

> find their local MPs details that was also set up

> on the website, so it was all set up to be easy

> for people to contribute and could also send it

> via the website. But we are all wanting Boris to

> listen, so this would be set up to target him. ...

[Steady Eddy]

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[mrs f]

This is shocking!

I had missed this totally, I will be writing to Boris, the train lord.... and Tessa Jowell tonight.

And I thought our transport was getting better with the ELL x..... Typical!

Thanks to everyone for campaigning and keep up the great work!!

[TJMP]

Attached is a copy of a letter from Transport Minister Sadiq Khan MP to Boris Johnson about the funding of the East London Line Phase 2 extension to Clapham Junction. This was received in Tessa's office today.

It is clear that the Mayor's only 'contribution' to the cost of the project was the ?24m 'saved' from requiring the Department for Transport to withdraw a service that would have run from Victoria to Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye. This was using a power the Mayor has to vary rail services in London. ?24m is less than half a percent of the ?5 billion that the Mayor boasted this week that he can save from TfL's budget.

Tessa Jowell MP's Office

[James Barber]

Fascinating reading.

So Labour DfT said to Tory TfL if you want ELL2 you'll have to find the money.

Tory TfL said if we have to make tough decision then please Labour DfT cancel Victoria-Bellingham planned services ameliorating SLL closure.

BUT Labour DfT told Network Rail how big and what services it wants at London Bridge which resulted in insufficient spaces for SLL which started the whole mess.

"A plague on both your houses"

[dogkennel]

Now now James,

Your colleague Laurie said this last week...

> Dogkennel ? the Lib Dems are an active part of the

> campaign, along with all the political parties

> locally. It?s great (and very refreshing) to see

> all of us working together on this, with no one is

> trying to score points.