Latest news on the Save the South London Line Campaign

[Eileen]

The campaign is hotting up again for the autumn. The facts and issues can be complicated so if any Forumites have anything they want clarified please ask in this thread leading up to the public meeting on 30 September ? see info below.

IMMEDIATE NEWS HIGHLIGHTS

* This week Southwark News are giving away in the paper a copy of their full page poster supporting the Save the South London campaign, available in the shops until this coming Wednesday. Put it up in your own window!

* Also the SRUG poster and flyer for the PUBLIC MEETING on WED 30 SEPTEMBER can be downloaded from http://www.southwarkrailusers.net Please print some out for display and distribution (A6 flyers to hand out to fellow passengers on your own station), and also send the info on to your friends and contacts who use the local rail services. We need lots of rail users at this campaign meeting: Wed 30th September, 6.30pm refreshments & networking, 7.00pm - 9.00pm meeting, at Institute of Psychiatry, 16 De Crespigny Park, Denmark Hill, Camberwell, SE5 8AF. This meeting is to enable rail users: * to get the facts; * discuss the issues; * join the action. Helpers also needed on the night; to volunteer email [email protected]

* London Mayor Boris Johnson will be taking questions from the public at MAYOR?S QUESTION TIME on MONDAY 9 NOVEMBER, 7pm - 9pm, Brixton Academy. He has refused to meet with South London Line Campaigners, so this is your chance to ask him why TfL are proposing that our rail services should be cut. Tickets are free, but are available on a first come, first serve basis - so don't delay! Let us have so many local rail users there that he has to hear us. TO APPLY: email - [email protected] including your name, address, postcode, daytime phone number and the number of tickets you require (max 6 per application) OR call 020 7983 4762.

OTHER NEWS

* London TravelWatch have just reported on their recent user survey which provides significant evidence to support the campaign.

* TfL are reviewing with London TravelWatch the ways that new services or tweaks to existing services could mitigate some of the negative impact of the cuts in the South London Line. This review will report in December so we have till then to try to influence what happens.

* The ultimate decision makers are the Rail Minister (and Department for Transport) and the London Mayor (and TfL). A meeting with the Rail Minister is being planned. A meeting has been requested with the Mayor, which he has rejected. Aim to get the message to him at the Brixton Mayor?s Question Time.

* Over 3000 signatures have now been collected on the petition. We need more. You can sign the online petition at http://www.gopetition.com/online/27426.html. Also you can print out paper copies and collect signatures - give some to your local cafe or local pub. Petition for download is at http://www.bellenden.net/srug/news/campaign-petition

* Visit the SRUG website http://www.southwarkrailusers.net for more information, and for facts about the campaign: http://www.bellenden.net/rail-cuts

[reggie]

is the pyjama protest still on for tuesday

[Eileen]

reggie Wrote:

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> is the pyjama protest still on for tuesday

YES! So much going on I forgot that immediate action. All welcome - see press release below.

______________________________________________________________________________

The Pyjama Protest - Tuesday 22nd September, 7.30pm, outside Denmark Hill Station

Key stations will lose evening service to Victoria if South London Line is scrapped

On Tuesday 22nd September campaigners fighting to save the South London Line will stage a pyjama protest outside Denmark Hill Station to highlight the loss of an evening service to Victoria if the line is scrapped. GLA members Val Shawcross and Jenny Jones will be joining the protestors. The campaigners, all clad in their pyjamas, will gather outside Denmark Hill Station at 7.30pm.

At present the South London line trains provide Peckham Rye, Denmark Hill, Clapham High Street and Wandsworth Road with their only service to Victoria after about 7.30pm in the evening.

John Stewart, Co-ordinator of Lambeth Public Transport Group, said, "Our pyjama protest will be a fun event with a serious purpose. It is quite absurd that inner London stations will be left with no service to Victoria after 7.30pm. Compare this to places on the underground where trains run until after midnight. It is doubly absurd when we consider that Denmark Hill serves two major hospitals"

Transport for London plans to scrap the South London Line when it opens the East London Line Extension to Clapham Junction. The South London Line runs in a loop from Victoria to London Bridge via Battersea Park, Wandsworth Road, Clapham High St, Denmark Hill, Peckham Rye, Queens Road and South Bermondsey.

For further information: John Stewart on 0207 737 6641 or 07957385650

[Eileen]

Wednesday today is the last day to buy the Southwark News which has a full page poster supporting the Save the South London campaign.

Also a reminder of the PUBLIC MEETING on WED 30 SEPTEMBER 6.30pm refreshments & networking, 7.00pm - 9.00pm meeting, at Institute of Psychiatry, 16 De Crespigny Park, Denmark Hill, Camberwell, SE5 8AF. Flyers for download from http://www.southwarkrailusers.net for printing and distribution. We need lots of rail users at this campaign meeting. Come and get the facts; discuss the issues; join the action. Helpers also needed on the night; to volunteer email [email protected]

[Eileen]

We now have confirmation that representatives of Network Rail, Transport for London, London TravelWatch the passenger watchdog group, and the rail companies, will be attending. Please come if you can. Lots of supporters needed. This is rail users' chance to impress the rail industry of our need for direct rail services into central London. Hope enough EDF people there so we can have some useful Forum discussions following the meeting

PUBLIC MEETING: WEDNESDAY 30th SEPTEMBER 2009

6.30pm refreshments & networking, 7.00pm - 9.00pm meeting

Institute of Psychiatry, 16 De Crespigny Park, Denmark Hill, Camberwell, SE5 8AF

see map attached - entrance at letter A, between Denmark Hill and Grove Lane

The meeting is

* to demonstrate the very strong support for the campaign,

* to inform us all on the facts and issues of the campaign.

* Please forward this information to your neighbours and friends if they use the trains.

* Visit the SRUG website for overall information and facts about the issues and the campaign: http://www.southwarkrailusers.net http://www.bellenden.net/rail-cuts

[James Barber]

Hi Eileen,

Hope the meeting goes really well tomorrow.

The only missing villain from the 'guests' is the Department of Transport who set the strategy for Network Rail to impliment.

[Eileen]

JBARBER Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Eileen,

> Hope the meeting goes really well tomorrow.

> The only missing villain from the 'guests' is the

> Department of Transport who set the strategy for

> Network Rail to impliment.

Thanks. Yes. They were invited but the only ones not even to acknowledge!

It is going to be a really great chance to show the rail industry how much local rail users care about their direct rail links into London Bridge and Victoria. Likely to be a lively, informative and interesting meeting. May also even be historic.

* If anyone can come early - we can do with help to set up from 6pm.

* worth coming from 6.30pm to join in the networking round each station and see the rail displays etc. Also talk to the rail representatives who are coming. If anyone wants to raise current train service issues best time is between 6.30pm and 7pm.

* Main session starts 7pm.

We hope lots of rail users come and take part and help to get our collective voice heard to put South London Zone 2 on the London rail map!

PUBLIC MEETING: WEDNESDAY 30th SEPTEMBER 2009

6.30pm refreshments & networking, 7.00pm - 9.00pm meeting

Institute of Psychiatry, 16 De Crespigny Park, Denmark Hill, Camberwell, SE5 8AF

see map attached - entrance at letter A, between Denmark Hill and Grove Lane

[R&A]

I went along to the meeting last night and i still can't believe the plans Boris and TFL have to cut back our vital south london line. I also don't think people are aware about the impact this will have on the whole of South London, not just those stations directly linked to the south london line. It would be a disaster for the area.

EILEEN - Could you possibly post that very helpful underground map you have on this forum for us to see? As i think pictures speak louder than words. Moreover, my boss is friends with Boris personally so i may stick it up on my wall at work too.

thanks again Eileen for all your efforts

Hopefully lots of people will be at the next event on November 9th to question BORIS as to why these cuts are even being considered

You can apply for tickets to attend this meeting if you email: [email protected] being held in Brixton

Oh - also i found the factsheet VERY informative

For those who did not attend last night here's a little summary:

EAST DULWICH: Trains cut from 6 per hour to 4 per hour (in last 12 months) to London Bridge

PECKHAM RYE: Trains cut from 8 last year down to 4 per hour by 2012 to London Bridge. Trains to Victoria will be cut from 4 to 2 and 0 in the evening.

The BLACKFRIARS service will be up for review in 2011/2012

QUEENS ROAD PECKHAM & SOUTH BERMONDSEY: Trains cut from 8 to london bridge last year, down to 4 by 2012

There are currently 2 trains going to victoria. By 2012 there will be 0 trains going to victoria.

DENMARK HILL: 2 Trains to London Bridge & 4 to Victoria - you will have NO trains going to london bridge by 2012

and just the two trains to Victoria in Day Times only.

CLAPHAM HIGH STREET & WANDSWORTH COMMON: 2 Trains currently go to London Bridge & Victria - this will be cut to 0 by 2012. So even more crowds at Clapham North Tube station...

NUNHEAD: The plans for an evening train service have been axed

Instead the area will get the EAST LONDON LINE extension which will mean we have to go to Canada water (?) and change OR go to Clapham junction(?) A nice addition for those wanting access to east london but NOT a replacement for two direct links to two central stations.

When you consider the infrastructure offered for Zone 2 NORTH londoners it makes you wonder what on earth are tfl thinking...

Let's hope Boris does the right thing when he makes the final decision on this

[sophiesofa]

Good grief I had no idea that much was being cut! Ridiculous

[Snoopy]

This makes me so mad! What are they thinking?!!

Come on Boris.....do the right thing

[evans1971]

Can someone explain to me the planned train service at peak times and off peak times from Peckham Rye in 2012 once the planned East London Line extenion to Clapham Junction opens. It seems quite confusing and not all the posts here seem to agree with what is going to happen!!

From what I can work out - and I might be being a herectic by saying this - but does not the 4 east london line trains per hour each way replace 2 Southern trains? And for me going to Canary Wharf or sometimes Bond Stret - it'll be far easier and quicker via Canada Water and the jubilee line........is that correct?

[R&A]

Yes - four trains going to canada water an hour - i'm not sure about off peak times

There will be people who benefit from the gained access to canada water (although good luck at getting on teh jubilee line at Canada Water during peak times...). Moreover there will be people who benefit from access to Clapham Junction (i.e. those people who commute OUT of london to work for e.g. my partner does this and would benefit himself).

But as the TravelWatch survey found the MAJORITY of people benefit from the DIRECT and QUICK(10mins) access to TWO central london line stations i.e. Victoria and London Bridge (importantly some of whom are patients & medical staff coming in from outside london)

The campaign highlights the reduction/loss of not one but TWO central stations and gaining just one station (Canada Water off to the east on London with no main line train station???) is just not a feasible and rational thing.

but you are lucky that you will benefit, yes.

[Torben Pieknik]

"although good luck at getting on teh jubilee line at Canada Water during peak times...)" - The jubilee line is being upgraded - there will be a 30 per cent increase in capacity on the line, and faster journey times from next year.

[Jeremy]

It's been upgraded before - it was still ram-packed after the work, and Canary Wharf isn't getting any smaller. And Canada Water - as the last stop before Canary Wharf - is always going to be hard to board at.

Don't hold too much hope for slashing your journey times.

[R&A]

Guys - why are people supporting / sticking up for this decision?

Losing the South London Line will be a major loss to the community - London Victoria and London Bridge do not compare to Canada Water.. i'm sorry they just don't.

We all need to stick together and fight to stop this happening, surely?

We are zone 2 Londoners. TFL stands for TRANSPORT FOR LONDON, not the home counties which are prioritised due to the higher fares that they pay.

There are masses of stations in North London that get trains every 5 mins and are much further out of london

Why is their service so good and ours just so poor and getting worse...

We deserve a better service than four trains to canada water.

I'm really confused as to why people are not livid that this is even a proposal....

sorry if i'm sounding emotional, i'm just heart broken that we're losing this service as i think it will directly impact areas like peckham for the worse... and peckham was finally getting better. Its all really sad i think

[Izodia]

Actually if the new technology being installed on the Jubilee Line works and is allowed to work to it's full potential, it really could improve capacity and journey times. It allows the train to run far closer together.

But I still don't see it making Canada Water any easier to use. The trains are always going to be packed when they reach there having passed Waterloo and London Bridge on their way to Canary Wharf.

On topic, I can't believe the proposal is to remove so many train services from SE London, especially those serving Kings. It seems ludicrous.

[James Barber]

I'm bemused people are talking about the Jubilee Line.

Most working people living in Peckham Rye, East Dulwich, Denmark Hill areas do so for ease of access to Victoria and London Bridge.

The Labour Government's Dept for Transport and Tory Transport for London are crucifying our train services.

Many existing residents wont find it sustainable to stay in our communities - it will be quicker and easier to get to work from outer suburbs. Many will weigh up the urban grit and future terrible public transport from summer 2010 and quit the area. Others who might have considered moving to the area wont.

Commuter towns 30 miles out of London have 6 trains an hour into central London that take 25mins with lower house prices. They find it easier and quicker to travel 30 miles than will 4 miles into central London.

Write to your MP and Boris and tell them what you think and that you wont put up with it. Also, tell them what you think it will do for the area.

[dogkennel]

I?ve commented on all these SLL proposals before on previous threads. There?s a good recent write up on the excellent London Reconnections website linked here. This reiterates that the measured analysis of Network Rail et al assesses that the current South London Line cannot continue in its same format. So someone travelling from Denmark Hill to London Bridge might not have a direct service, but have to change across platforms at Peckham Rye (and you?d get better frequencies Denmark Hill to Peckham Rye than exist now). However that RUS did propose the intended Victoria ? Bellingham service which would have provided the evening service and Wandsworth Road / Clapham HS ? Victoria links which I gather was cut to help fund the ELL Phase 2.

As well as the passenger services, there?s a lot of freight trains which need to be squeezed through here too, so you can?t just throw on more trains.

James Barber, I?d like to know what a Lib Dem administration (or any other politician for that matter) would do to alter the proposals in the mega million Thameslink scheme which causes the lack of capacity at London Bridge which is one of several reasons for removing the SLL. Or how to deal with the complexities of the railway around Battersea Park.

[Steady Eddy]

-

[Laurie Eggleston]

R&A ? I?m responsible from getting the Tube map mocked up showing the South London Line. Quite aside from the issues around frequency, it really annoys me that TfL don?t show the direct connections which are available from Camberwell and Peckham into central London.

Unfortunately I can?t upload the map on here, as the file is too big. Big if you look on my website you can save it from there www.laurieeggleston.org. Alternatively private message me and I?ll email it over to anyone who wants it. You?ll see on my version I?ve taken the liberty of running the South London Line through to Charing Cross ? which would be the ideal option for the line, and with Network Rail saying there isn?t room to terminate at London Bridge it may be the practical solution.

Everyone who sees this map tells me that it would really make them use the South London Line service more, and therefore come to south London more! TfL don?t seem to appreciate the important part they play in regenerating inner-south London. People don?t care whether TfL run the service or not, they just want to look on a map and see what?s there. I?d love it if Boris showed some leadership and said that TfL will take over the running of the South London Line. The fact it?s completely contained in Zones 1 and 2 means it?s different from other train lines in central London. But regardless, there?s no reason it couldn?t be shown.

Boris and TfL seem content to pass the blame over to Network Rail (see the smug performance from TfL representative at Wednesday?s meeting), but Boris is the one person who could step in and show real leadership and prove he?s not just a mayor for outer-London. That?s why it?s essential as many people as possible come to the People?s Question Time to make it clear to him our anger over these plans.

Dogkennel ? the Lib Dems are an active part of the campaign, along with all the political parties locally. It?s great (and very refreshing) to see all of us working together on this, with no one is trying to score points. One of the things the Lib Dems would plan to do though is oppose any Network Rail planning application for London Bridge which doesn?t make full use of space for platforms (there is a planning application for the site due soon).

[R&A]

Hi Laurie

thanks for your mail - i'll pop on your website now

do you have any thoughts as to steady eddy's point about the media?

i'm not involved in your line of work and have no idea as to how this can be taken up by the media etc...

perhaps you can help?

i know that the south london press ran a story on it - how can we get this onto London Tonight or equivalent considering how dramatic these cuts are?

[James Barber]

Hi dogkennel,

1970's signal box was built at London Bridge station blocking the lines to platforms 17-20 which were removed.

That signal box is moving to the suburbs.

Rebuilding those terminating platforms under the existing train shed is the obvious solution. It would in money terms be very cheap to build as foundations, alignments etc must all be their or possible.

That's what should be done.

Take a look via google earth at London Bridge station, also see old station plans at the Local History library.

[dogkennel]

Thanks Laurie. Nice to see your map. The map you?ve used as a base shows what the future map would look like with the ELL extension to Clapham Junction when TfL would be in control of it, so we would be on the map from 2012?!

I do hope people living all over London are sensible enough to realise that there are other travel maps available apart from the tube map! People living here seem to have worked out how to use National Rail quite nicely.

[sophiesofa]

> I do hope people living all over London are

> sensible enough to realise that there are other

> travel maps available apart from the tube map!

> People living here seem to have worked out how to

> use National Rail quite nicely.

I don't think that's completely true. I think south Londoners understand the trains for the area but a lot of my friends live in north London and are always reluctant to come down south because it's "such a hassle getting south". It's not until they actually do it or I explain that they realise otherwise.

[dogkennel]

Thanks James,

It would be good to see if such changes can be made at London Bridge - hope the Shard development doesn't jeopardise anything, and that's there enough money available in whatever transport budgets there are.

Apologies if my posts to you and Laurie seemed curt, I do fully support your and everyone else's work to promote this and other transport issues like the cancelled Cross River Tram which would help to improve access and regeneration in inner south London.